Little help pls to choose a bunch of boat rods/reels

[mike farrants]

for me its for the shock of actually catching a fish? 😆

 

yes sorry - im still 70% shore fisherman - still quite new to boat fishing!! 

[Scotch_Egg2012]

Just going to add onto the already very good advice that your knots need to be braid friendly.  Braid will slip if the incorrect knot is used or the correct knot tied poorly

I use Berkeley whiplash which is one of the thinnest braids and my go to knot is a 10 turn Grinner knot. Practice tying it at home 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Scotch_Egg2012

[Petroni]

5 hours ago, Scotch_Egg2012 said:

Just going to add onto the already very good advice that your knots need to be braid friendly.  Braid will slip if the incorrect knot is used or the correct knot tied poorly

I use Berkeley whiplash which is one of the thinnest braids and my go to knot is a 10 turn Grinner knot. Practice tying it at home 

 

 

10 turn seems like a 'belt and braces' knot but knot puller ordered (to save my ageing fingers) and practice will start at the weekend! Thanks.

[Scotch_Egg2012]

18 hours ago, Petroni said:

10 turn seems like a 'belt and braces' knot but knot puller ordered (to save my ageing fingers) and practice will start at the weekend! Thanks.

You'll be suprised how small the knot will end up. 

[JDP]

On 6/16/2021 at 1:19 AM, Saintly Fish said:

Just to be pedantic Mike, this is called a rubbing leader not a shock leader. A shock leader is used for when casting a lead from the beach.

Also just being pedantic!!!

Gee's, I use both shock and rubbing leaders on both shore and boat, hope I don't get disqualified!!!

The rubbing leader is the trace that gets rubbed around fish and rough bottoms and my shock leader is the line between the terminal tackle and braid to reduce the shock and stop hooks tearing from fish in aggressive head shakes etc.

 

[Petroni]

Well that was a nightmare. 40 years ago I set up a business in the UK called TNT Courier which collected stuff up to end of business hours and delivered before 9am next morning anywhere in UK (offshore islands excluded). Now, 40 years on, I have to wait 2 months for a supplier to (maybe) have a stock of reels, 20 days for line to (maybe) arrive with an unknown bill to pay for customs duties and after that, two out of the three types of rods I wanted are not available for an unknown period. But thats progress I suspect. What ever happened to the 'just in time' systems that worked so well in years past. 

Okay, moan over. I have 1500yds of 30lb Power Pro braid arriving sometime this year to go on to 6 reels. My question is, how do I measure the line that I am transferring? I propose  to add 200 yards of braid onto each reel to add to a backing of 150-200 yards or so of various mono. I thought of weighing the bulk spool and monitoring its weight during transfer but I need to deduct the spool/former weight (but i could take a stab at guessing that). I am sure there must be a 'hack' for doing this but I suspect my brain is sluggish after the logistics conundrum I have been trying to unravel sourcing unavailable from countless sources. Any advice on this would be most welcome. By the way, I gave up trying to buy the Fathom ii 20 reels (at least for a few months) and ended up with two Fathom ii 15's and 4 Abu Sevens (7000s) capacity 270yds/30lb mono .45, hence the proposed 150-200yd : 200yd mono:braid split mentioned above. As always, open to any advice short of shooting myself. Thanks all.

 

[Andy135]

2 minutes ago, Petroni said:

Well that was a nightmare. 40 years ago I set up a business in the UK called TNT Courier which collected stuff up to end of business hours and delivered before 9am next morning anywhere in UK (offshore islands excluded). Now, 40 years on, I have to wait 2 months for a supplier to (maybe) have a stock of reels, 20 days for line to (maybe) arrive with an unknown bill to pay for customs duties and after that, two out of the three types of rods I wanted are not available for an unknown period. But thats progress I suspect. What ever happened to the 'just in time' systems that worked so well in years past. 

Okay, moan over. I have 1500yds of 30lb Power Pro braid arriving sometime this year to go on to 6 reels. My question is, how do I measure the line that I am transferring? I propose  to add 200 yards of braid onto each reel to add to a backing of 150-200 yards or so of various mono. I thought of weighing the bulk spool and monitoring its weight during transfer but I need to deduct the spool/former weight (but i could take a stab at guessing that). I am sure there must be a 'hack' for doing this but I suspect my brain is sluggish after the logistics conundrum I have been trying to unravel sourcing unavailable from countless sources. Any advice on this would be most welcome. By the way, I gave up trying to buy the Fathom ii 20 reels (at least for a few months) and ended up with two Fathom ii 15's and 4 Abu Sevens (7000s) capacity 270yds/30lb mono .45, hence the proposed 150-200yd : 200yd mono:braid split mentioned above. As always, open to any advice short of shooting myself. Thanks all.

 

Sorry to hear of your woes Peter. Supply chains, particularly those from Asia, are all over the place at present. It's an ongoing source of frustration when buying fishing tackle just now. Should get better with time though as the effects of Brexit/Covid19/stuck container ships get sorted out.

As to your question on braid measurement, I'm not sure I have an answer for you other than to say that when filling with 100% braid, this issue doesn't arise - I just fill the spool until the braid is just below the spool lip.

However, I appreciate the need for reasonable accuracy in your case to split the bulk spool evenly across six reels, so you might try getting hold of a line counter and rigging it up on the rod that holds the reel you're filling. This should give you a way to measure length of line/braid consistently.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Berkley-Clip-on-Line-Counter-Black/dp/B005OTYW2E/ref=asc_df_B005OTYW2E/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=275797872660&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13605067761123563019&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007009&hvtargid=pla-448867667493&psc=1

[suzook12]

No help I know, but there are braids that change colour every 100M or so.....

The carp boys use two sticks to measure out for casting so they can clip up. You could do something similar, put 2 sticks/poles in the ground say 5m apartand wrap the required amount round, cut the line, then load onto reel? Depends how much space you have I guess

[Petroni]

Thank you both. I feel slightly better about myself that I didn't miss an obvious solution. I'll email Power Pro and see if some back room boffin in shipping or storage knows the weight of the spools before they are loaded. The fact that they speak Mandarin might prove a challenge.

[Petroni]

Finally got the defective (new out of the box) Abu reel replaced and added line to all 6 yesterday (4 x Abu sevens and 2 x Penn LW15s). Calculating the amount of mono and braid on each reel took a PhD in mental agility but I ended up with broadly half and half by volume but more braid by length. Used 20lb Trilene .38mm mono topped with Powerpro Spectra 50lb braid .36mm hoping that matching the thicknesses overcomes the warnings about the braid laying properly. It may seem overkill but my thoughts are that we can adjust the rigs for lighter stuff but still target some bigger fish later without buying different setups at this stage, even though the rods are only rated at 12-20lb which may make for some interesting memories.   

Today is set aside for leaders and making rigs. Terminology is an issue as, like with meat and butchery, everyone calls different cuts of meat by different names in different places. I plan to use 40lb mono leaders (but considered 60lbs). Views? Then I need a variety of rigs premade so my 5 lads/grandsons and I have something to work with when we next fish. Plaice is a target for the next outing for two of us (a bit of frying pan rivalry here). Any views you have about the usefulness of beads, sequins and general 'bling' rigs for Plaice would help or are they more 'fashion than function'?

The next trip is an 8 hour mid tide outing so mackerel, bream, plaice etc are the most likely I suspect. I plan to use 1/0 hooks for the plaice to discourage smaller fish as we plan to eat anything of a decent size and try to discourage smaller plaice bites by hook/bait size although I am unsure if this tactic is anything but wishful thinking. Other than that, any general rig setup advice would be much appreciated as the entire world seems to have an opinion and my life expectancy is probably only about 10-12 more years so saving a little time always helps.  Let the opinions commence (and thank you in advance!).

[mike farrants]

good work so far!

I generally use a running ledger (sliding weight on a boom) - and a 2,3 or 4 ft trace of varying thickness - 100lb and large hooks if i'm in conger or tope territory, 50lb and mid sized hooks elsewhere - might seem overkill but a few doggies roughing up your hook lengths could lead to a lost fish. 

i'll then use a one up one down type rig for bream/gurnard, etc. 

Not very experienced at catching plaice - but beads & sequins do improve catch rates!

[Andy135]

Agree with Mike. 100lb mono leaders for conger, paired with 6/0 Aberdeens. For other fishing I tend to use 40lb mono leaders, with hooks sized appropriately for whatever the target species is.

For plaice specifically, I use 15lb fluoro leaders, usually around 1.5-2ft long, behind a watch lead - watch leads have been proven to puff up silt and sand on the sea floor more effectively than other lead shapes, and this puff of material draws in the plaice as they think that it's a prey fish feeding. The relatively short leader then presents your hookbait in the vicinity of the puff of sand, leading to a better hook-up rate (although I still seem to blank more than I catch when plaice fishing). I also use black and green beads on the leader. Others use different coloured beads depending on what fishes best on their local marks.

For bream there are some good threads on here regarding bream rigs. @Scotch_Egg2012 has done some side by side comparisons if I remember correctly and found that hook lengths with pop-up/floating beads were more effective at catching bream than those without. Usually a 2 or 3 hook flapper rig with small (size 4-6) hooks are used, along with pop-up beads, and thin, finger-length strips of squid.

I doubt that hook size or bait size will prevent marginally under-sized fish from being caught, so you may decide to go with smaller hooks and return those that are not in size, given that young anglers usually find catching something small is better than catching nothing.

[Scotch_Egg2012]

55 minutes ago, Andy135 said:

Agree with Mike. 100lb mono leaders for conger, paired with 6/0 Aberdeens. For other fishing I tend to use 40lb mono leaders, with hooks sized appropriately for whatever the target species is.

For plaice specifically, I use 15lb fluoro leaders, usually around 1.5-2ft long, behind a watch lead - watch leads have been proven to puff up silt and sand on the sea floor more effectively than other lead shapes, and this puff of material draws in the plaice as they think that it's a prey fish feeding. The relatively short leader then presents your hookbait in the vicinity of the puff of sand, leading to a better hook-up rate (although I still seem to blank more than I catch when plaice fishing). I also use black and green beads on the leader. Others use different coloured beads depending on what fishes best on their local marks.

For bream there are some good threads on here regarding bream rigs. @Scotch_Egg2012 has done some side by side comparisons if I remember correctly and found that hook lengths with pop-up/floating beads were more effective at catching bream than those without. Usually a 2 or 3 hook flapper rig with small (size 4-6) hooks are used, along with pop-up beads, and thin, finger-length strips of squid.

I doubt that hook size or bait size will prevent marginally under-sized fish from being caught, so you may decide to go with smaller hooks and return those that are not in size, given that young anglers usually find catching something small is better than catching nothing.

I did indeed run side by side tests, the pop ups noticeably out fished the non pop up. 

I have converted Ray to use them, he was very sceptical but also ran a side by side and got the same results.  Yellow pop ups seemed to be the most effective

They also work for Whiting, Pout, Scad etc the list goes on,  I have had rays, small Tope and Hounds into double figures take the rig often at the cost of a heavier rig I'd set up for them. 

 

[mike farrants]

yes - i have yellow hooks, and yellow pop ups on my bream rigs!

 

[Saintly Fish]

If you don’t want to sit there wasting your life away making rigs (you did say time saved is a good idea), then for starters you can search for “Ken’s rigs” on eBay. I’ve purchased bream rigs and plaice rigs from him and they are quality home tied rigs. But with any rig you don’t tie yourself, always double check the knots. 
I can’t be arsed to tie rigs so generally use Ken’s and then running ledgers for all other situations. 
just remember with hook lengths, in a small tide make them double length over the strong tide lengths. This allows them to flow around that bit more. 

[Petroni]

Great feedback fellas, thank you. I finally have a use for the few watch leads I have been storing for the last 40-50 years!

One quickie. The skipper of the boat we use thinks smacking a fish on the back of the headd to kill it is "cruel" which came as a surprise to me. However. I just researched Ikejime (aka Ikijime) method of killing fish which seems pretty much the same at the first stage (driving a spike through the fishes brain) rendering it brain dead but the heart still goes on pumping.

Next stage is to cut through the gills both side and the tail artery and allow the fish to bleed out as fully as possible before cleaning it up and putting on ice to firm up. Now this seemed like an odd alternative to the 'priest' method I have used since a child but, and here is the odd bit for me. The claims are that this method makes the fish not only last much longer (around two weeks in a regular domestic fridge) but it tastes completely different (and better). Seemingly, its the lactic acid, adrenalin, residual blood and other chemicals, released during/after death, that cause the fish to become smelly after a couple of days and develop a deteriorating 'old fishy' taste. Is Ikejime something any of you have tried and does it really make the differences that are claimed? Seems a simple way to greatly improve the eating side of fishing.

[Saintly Fish]

3 minutes ago, Petroni said:

Great feedback fellas, thank you. I finally have a use for the few watch leads I have been storing for the last 40-50 years!

One quickie. The skipper of the boat we use thinks smacking a fish on the back of the headd to kill it is "cruel" which came as a surprise to me. However. I just researched Ikejime (aka Ikijime) method of killing fish which seems pretty much the same at the first stage (driving a spike through the fishes brain) rendering it brain dead but the heart still goes on pumping.

Next stage is to cut through the gills both side and the tail artery and allow the fish to bleed out as fully as possible before cleaning it up and putting on ice to firm up. Now this seemed like an odd alternative to the 'priest' method I have used since a child but, and here is the odd bit for me. The claims are that this method makes the fish not only last much longer (around two weeks in a regular domestic fridge) but it tastes completely different (and better). Seemingly, its the lactic acid, adrenalin, residual blood and other chemicals, released during/after death, that cause the fish to become smelly after a couple of days and develop a deteriorating 'old fishy' taste. Is Ikejime something any of you have tried and does it really make the differences that are claimed? Seems a simple way to greatly improve the eating side of fishing.

I’m not a massive fish eater, most of mine is done for sport. But, if a fish needs to be dispatched then I always use a priest. Then gut it straight away, and stick it in cold water if Ice isn’t available. Cutting the gills and bleeding the fish isn’t a bad idea. 

[Andy135]

I've heard of people cutting the gills to let the fish bleed out as a method of improving the quality of the flesh. However I would have thought that the brain would need to be alive to tell the heart to keep pumping in order to purge all the blood, so I'm not convinced of the Ikijime method but having never tried it I'll keep an open mind. Let us know if you notice a difference in the quality and taste 👍

[JonC]

I use the 5 point palm exploding heart technique on the fish I am keeping for lunch. 

[Andy135]

9 minutes ago, JonC said:

I use the 5 point palm exploding heart technique on the fish I am keeping for lunch. 

Ah, yes. That's a good one. Poor old Bill...

[GPSguru]

3 hours ago, Andy135 said:

I've heard of people cutting the gills to let the fish bleed out as a method of improving the quality of the flesh. However I would have thought that the brain would need to be alive to tell the heart to keep pumping in order to purge all the blood, so I'm not convinced of the Ikijime method but having never tried it I'll keep an open mind. Let us know if you notice a difference in the quality and taste 👍

Definitely works, we cut the gill roots on keeper Pollock and Bass, the fish dies very quickly and the flesh is pristine and white.

[mike farrants]

yeah did that on the bream and turbot i ate recently - the fish was delicious - cant say it wasn't just my expert cooking though?

[Petroni]

Today's question is about braid line strength. I spent the morning writing some notes for the grandkids and printing out step by step diagrams for uni, palermo and double uni knots which I intend teaching them next week. While testing these knots on a dead lift of a 30lb box of leads, my 50lb braid broke always, never at the knot, just mid line. So my question is; should a 50lb braid be capable of lifting a 30lb dead weight or am I missing something when I look at line strength? I took enormous care to ensure that the line was not jerked so the effort that was applied was gradual on all tests.

[Andy135]

Are you certain that you're only lifting 30lb of weight, not more? If so, then I suspect that the quoted breaking strain has been over-stated. To break at just over half of the quoted b.s. and mid-length suggests that it's not truly 50lb b.s. braid.

We had some Spiderwire braid at the boat meet recently, and the spool markings were a little intriguing, in that it was labelled as 20lb b.s. braid, but also carried a max b.s. figure of 36lb. I wonder if your PowerPro is quoting the absolute max b.s. (i.e. the factory managed to obtain a single recorded b.s. test result of 50lb, but the average b.s. was actually much lower) and should really be downgraded to quote 30lb.

 

[suzook12]

2 minutes ago, Petroni said:

Today's question is about braid line strength. I spent the morning writing some notes for the grandkids and printing out step by step diagrams for uni, palermo and double uni knots which I intend teaching them next week. While testing these knots on a dead lift of a 30lb box of leads, my 50lb braid broke always, never at the knot, just mid line. So my question is; should a 50lb braid be capable of lifting a 30lb dead weight or am I missing something when I look at line strength? I took enormous care to ensure that the line was not jerked so the effort that was applied was gradual on all tests.

Yes, it should manage a 30lb dead lift and any failing before that should be at a knot or damaged area.

As you don't say what line this is, only that it's braid, it sounds like it may be a cheapy........ Or your scales are out!! I would expect to get a minimum of 45lb and maybe as much as 55lb but 30lb is not even close. I would have a chat with your supplier about it and if you have access to a micrometer, check the diameter as well. it may have been an incorrectly labelled spool