Ais

[Herbs73]

Morning guys,

im looking at getting AIS and then radar at a later date, however I’m finding it a bit confusing to decide which is the best and most cost effective way to go. 
   I upgraded the plotter to  a Simrad go 7 with NMEA 2000 but my standard horizon vhf  only has NMEA 0183 it going to cost £100 to get the converter so should I just get a vhf with built in Ais ? or a separate transponder? I’ve pretty much decided I want to transmit as well as receive but don’t know if class b is good enough or do I need b+. My boat will do 27 knots but I only cruise at 18 ? 
 

would this be a good buy and if so what else would I need to buy ie splitter/ Ariel. ? And can I make my existing radio work with it ? 

https://www.cactusnav.com/ocean-signal-atb1-transceiver-class-sotdma-with-wifi-external-antenna-p-28023.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6bvDo5Od_gIVp4BQBh2kJg7zEAQYASABEgJuuPD_BwE

 

TIA

 

 

 

 

[Saintly Fish]

1 hour ago, Herbs73 said:

Morning guys,

im looking at getting AIS and then radar at a later date, however I’m finding it a bit confusing to decide which is the best and most cost effective way to go. 
   I upgraded the plotter to  a Simrad go 7 with NMEA 2000 but my standard horizon vhf  only has NMEA 0183 it going to cost £100 to get the converter so should I just get a vhf with built in Ais ? or a separate transponder? I’ve pretty much decided I want to transmit as well as receive but don’t know if class b is good enough or do I need b+. My boat will do 27 knots but I only cruise at 18 ? 
 

would this be a good buy and if so what else would I need to buy ie splitter/ Ariel. ? And can I make my existing radio work with it ? 

https://www.cactusnav.com/ocean-signal-atb1-transceiver-class-sotdma-with-wifi-external-antenna-p-28023.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6bvDo5Od_gIVp4BQBh2kJg7zEAQYASABEgJuuPD_BwE

 

TIA

 

 

 

 

I don't know much about the technical issues you're asking., but my question to you is this..... do you need AIS and radar?  Do you go out in the dark much? Or in the fog? If not, then AIS transmit and receive will be good enough alone. 
The reason I say this is because I have both, and apart from one trip out in dense fog, I've never used the radar. Ok, so it is nice to know it's there but is it worth the cost? You could always add it later if you feel you really need it, but for now I'd just go AIS. 

Edited April 10, 2023 by Saintly Fish

[Herbs73]

So far no I’ve not gone out out much in fog or travelled at night, this has been due mainly to me staying within my comfort zone, however I am planning on going out further and want to be as safe as I can be.  I am based in brightlingsea so have traffic in the Thames estuary to contend with and I’ve promised the wife some weekends away in the boat ( this was a proviso on buying the boat 5 years ago which hasn’t really happened) 

. Im also wanting to all round improve my seamanship in general to get the most out of my boat and improving the electronics  I think is a part of that process.  But yes my plan is ais first and then radar maybe next season 

Edited April 10, 2023 by Herbs73

[JonC]

In the Thames area nobody seems to transmit AIS. I don’t have AIS myself to see it in real time but when I look on the phone apps ( which I know aren’t that good ) there’s only ever a couple of vessels on the screen even though there could be 20 boats in sight. 

[Herbs73]

42 minutes ago, JonC said:

In the Thames area nobody seems to transmit AIS. I don’t have AIS myself to see it in real time but when I look on the phone apps ( which I know aren’t that good ) there’s only ever a couple of vessels on the screen even though there could be 20 boats in sight. 

Yeah I guess not many recreational boaters use it, I guess my thoughts are that with my intention of going out further I want to avoid being run down by a commercial. ?

[JonC]

31 minutes ago, Herbs73 said:

Yeah I guess not many recreational boaters use it, I guess my thoughts are that with my intention of going out further I want to avoid being run down by a commercial. ?

The big container ships out of harwich and Felixstowe transmit, other than that it’s just the Thames barges that seem to show up. The commercial fishing boats don’t turn theirs on 

[GPSguru]

4 hours ago, Herbs73 said:

Morning guys,

im looking at getting AIS and then radar at a later date, however I’m finding it a bit confusing to decide which is the best and most cost effective way to go. 
   I upgraded the plotter to  a Simrad go 7 with NMEA 2000 but my standard horizon vhf  only has NMEA 0183 it going to cost £100 to get the converter so should I just get a vhf with built in Ais ? or a separate transponder? I’ve pretty much decided I want to transmit as well as receive but don’t know if class b is good enough or do I need b+. My boat will do 27 knots but I only cruise at 18 ? 
 

would this be a good buy and if so what else would I need to buy ie splitter/ Ariel. ? And can I make my existing radio work with it ? 

https://www.cactusnav.com/ocean-signal-atb1-transceiver-class-sotdma-with-wifi-external-antenna-p-28023.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6bvDo5Od_gIVp4BQBh2kJg7zEAQYASABEgJuuPD_BwE

 

TIA

 

 

 

 

I use AIS as it is more useful to me than radar, because I never go out in fog or visibility of less than 1nm. Also I sometimes fish in the shipping lanes.

I use  the Garmin AIS 800, which is B+, however most transponders are now B+.

My boat is 45knts , but I mostly cruise at 28 - 30knts.

Just a glance at the plotter shows me all the commercial marine traffic nearby, and their course / speed. Here in South Devon a lot of pleasure boats also use AIS.

 

[Herbs73]

27 minutes ago, JonC said:

The big container ships out of harwich and Felixstowe transmit, other than that it’s just the Thames barges that seem to show up. The commercial fishing boats don’t turn theirs on 

Isn’t it illegal for a commercial to be moving and have ais turned off ? 

[Herbs73]

5 minutes ago, GPSguru said:

I use AIS as it is more useful to me than radar, because I never go out in fog or visibility of less than 1nm. Also I sometimes fish in the shipping lanes.

I use  the Garmin AIS 800, which is B+, however most transponders are now B+.

My boat is 45knts , but I mostly cruise at 28 - 30knts.

Just a glance at the plotter shows me all the commercial marine traffic nearby, and their course / speed. Here in South Devon a lot of pleasure boats also use AIS.

 

Do you have a splitter and run the ais from your vhf Ariel or a separate Ariel ? 

[GPSguru]

4 minutes ago, Herbs73 said:

Isn’t it illegal for a commercial to be moving and have ais turned off ? 

Not fishing boats, other commercial users, yes, but I think it depends on boat size.

[GPSguru]

1 minute ago, Herbs73 said:

Do you have a splitter and run the ais from your vhf Ariel or a separate Ariel ? 

Yes, the splitter is built into the Garmin AIS800, so I just have one VHF antenna.

 

 

[Herbs73]

20 minutes ago, GPSguru said:

Yes, the splitter is built into the Garmin AIS800, so I just have one VHF antenna.

 

 

Just had a look on cactus, that’s a decent price as well. I take it that it will work with a Simrad mfd ? 

[GPSguru]

1 minute ago, Herbs73 said:

Just had a look on cactus, that’s a decent price as well. I take it that it will work with a Simrad mfd ? 

Provided that you simrad has a nmea2000 port, then yes, it should network ok. I have 2x garmin 95 plotters, garmin livescope panoptix sonar, AIS 800, mercury engine management, and mercury active trim, all joined together on a nmea 2000 network.

[Herbs73]

10 minutes ago, GPSguru said:

Provided that you simrad has a nmea2000 port, then yes, it should network ok. I have 2x garmin 95 plotters, garmin livescope panoptix sonar, AIS 800, mercury engine management, and mercury active trim, all joined together on a nmea 2000 network.

Yes it has NMEA 2000, could I connect the vhf to the transponder via NMEA 0183 instead of trying to connect it to the mfd? 

[GPSguru]

2 minutes ago, Herbs73 said:

Yes it has NMEA 2000, could I connect the vhf to the transponder via NMEA 0183 instead of trying to connect it to the mfd? 

If you network it with nmea200 and then activate AIS on the plotter, then the plotter accepts the AIS 800 info, which updates dependent on the speed you are going.

[Herbs73]

6 minutes ago, GPSguru said:

If you network it with nmea200 and then activate AIS on the plotter, then the plotter accepts the AIS 800 info, which updates dependent on the speed you are going.

Will do 

[Maverick]

My last boat had both AIS and Radar.  The most useful is definitely the Radar.  Yes if you're offshore commercial shipping will show up on AIS but both commercial and private boats will show up on the radar.  My current boat has Radar only, I have it on most days when travelling just to keep used to using it, also I think if you have navigational aids you are supposed to use them.  I don't go out in fog intentionally however I have been caught out with near nil or very close visibility mid channel the piece of kit I would rather have is yep you guessed it Radar as it will see you safe from well offshore to inshore where most small craft don't have AIS.  Don't get me wrong AIS is brilliant and I have been called up by name by commercial shipping asking my intentions so from that perspective it is useful just not as useful as Radar.  If you can afford both then have both if not radar is the thing to have

Get radar do a course and use it, learn how to adjust manually without relying on auto settings which are ok but just not as good as using the correct settings.

[Odyssey]

I’ve got both, both have their uses. Radar is great for navigation, collision avoidance in daylight and fog. If you e lost your GPS signal I can tell you’ll be glad to have radar on board!

I’ve got Emtek AIS transponder and a separate splitter. I take the NEMA2k output and it goes into my SIMNET backbone which is also NEMA2k just a different connector….

If you’re going Radar route, learn how to use it…. Learn how to use it in good conditions and when fog comes down you know what to do… 

Things like a variable range marker is invaluable for me as worh high level of commercial traffic in Milford Haven I can set a marker as the as to how close to get to vessel. One glance at the screen and I can tell if helmsman/helmswoman is getting too close…. 
 

It’s also useful for secondary navigation, I can take a bearing off a cardinal marker and a range, and cross check on my GPS… useful for then your GPS packs up (I lost my puck signal twice so yes it can happen….)

AIS is easier to use, there is a little boat icon on your screen, keep clear of it 🤣 but everyone can see where your fishing….

If if were me, I’d go Radar and then AIS but not my cash….

[GPSguru]

On 4/10/2023 at 6:59 PM, Odyssey said:

It’s also useful for secondary navigation, I can take a bearing off a cardinal marker and a range, and cross check on my GPS… useful for then your GPS packs up (I lost my puck signal twice so yes it can happen….)

I have multiple GPS sources, so a lot would need to go wrong before I lost mine. 

[Maverick]

Manowar does it, twice I have lost radar and plotter as one went past and they were 4/5 miles away from us.  Quite scary the first time it happened as didn't have a clue what caused it.  Always have a reciprocal course at the ready

[Herbs73]

So which radar would you guys recomend ? I have a Simrad plotter so I’m leaning towards a Simrad radar. However the cheapest Simrad plotter is 2k. For the same money I can get get a garmin and a plotter.  Is there much difference between the 2 and if there is does the Simrad just have capabilities/ features that I will never use. I’m not a yachtsman planning on sailing round the United Kingdom or cross the Atlantic and a cheaper garmin will do me just fine. It’s bloody confusing and  I can read product reviews all day but it’s the experience you guys have that’s invaluable . 

[Saintly Fish]

17 minutes ago, Herbs73 said:

So which radar would you guys recomend ? I have a Simrad plotter so I’m leaning towards a Simrad radar. However the cheapest Simrad plotter is 2k. For the same money I can get get a garmin and a plotter.  Is there much difference between the 2 and if there is does the Simrad just have capabilities/ features that I will never use. I’m not a yachtsman planning on sailing round the United Kingdom or cross the Atlantic and a cheaper garmin will do me just fine. It’s bloody confusing and  I can read product reviews all day but it’s the experience you guys have that’s invaluable . 

I have the Garmin HD4k radome coupled to a pair of gpsmap 8410 plotters. It all works a treat. 
Maybe one of the more technical bods like @GPSguru (don't bother with @Andy135 he just copies and pasted from Google) can tell you if the garmin can be used with the simrad that you have? Or you could purchase a smaller garmin plotter and use just the ais and radar on that, then have the simrad as a stand alone??

[JonC]

I’m sure a Garmin one will serve your purposes, basic units now are far more advanced than older models. 
My furuno radar is very basic, has very few settings but it shows targets pretty good and that’s all that matters to me, I’m not interested in rain clouds 20 mile away. 
I have a furuno Drs4w that runs through an iPad, when I bought it I didn’t have a mfd so it was a cheap option at the time at about £1000. This was before I knew anyone who was an expert at Garmin stuff. 

[Herbs73]

25 minutes ago, JonC said:

I’m sure a Garmin one will serve your purposes, basic units now are far more advanced than older models. 
My furuno radar is very basic, has very few settings but it shows targets pretty good and that’s all that matters to me, I’m not interested in rain clouds 20 mile away. 
I have a furuno Drs4w that runs through an iPad, when I bought it I didn’t have a mfd so it was a cheap option at the time at about £1000. This was before I knew anyone who was an expert at Garmin stuff. 

Is that the wireless Furuno ? 

[GPSguru]

41 minutes ago, Herbs73 said:

So which radar would you guys recomend ? I have a Simrad plotter so I’m leaning towards a Simrad radar. However the cheapest Simrad plotter is 2k. For the same money I can get get a garmin and a plotter.  Is there much difference between the 2 and if there is does the Simrad just have capabilities/ features that I will never use. I’m not a yachtsman planning on sailing round the United Kingdom or cross the Atlantic and a cheaper garmin will do me just fine. It’s bloody confusing and  I can read product reviews all day but it’s the experience you guys have that’s invaluable . 

Most of the radars will be the same performance as nearly all of the use the same high definition narrow band technology.

Garmin has always served me well, and the only time I would change is if I went to a much, much larger tub (talking 12m plus here), and then I would use a stand alone PC coupled to multiple 22” monitors, and blackbox sidescan sonar !

Simrad is good kit, and they do make some very nice ‘high end’ kit which is more for professional use.

From a personal point of view, I tend to avoid lowrance as it just doesn't seem up to the job and also it is not robust.

I have heard folk moan about Garmin tech help and service, but TBH I have found them to be first class in both response and knowledge.