Practicalities running a boat from Teignmouth

[RogB]

Hi All,

as i mentioned in my intro post I am considering a boat to fish from Teignmouth, but have no experience afloat apart from several years of kayak fishing. I'm trying to work out whether the outlay is going to open up some interesting opportunities or will be similarly in broad terms to the kayak. It will be joint effort with my kayak buddy and we only fish lures (occasional fly). Of course we will do some trips with the wags so 4 up max.

I would like to keep the boat at home in a garage (which is 5.5m long) rather than on a mooring as I can't be sure we would use it that regularly and the costs, extra security and maintenance are a concern. How long a boat and trailer would fit -I'm guessing about 4m with about 1m for the towing and 50cm for outboard? Most of what I have read says don't buy too small a boat as you soon outgrow it, but what is too small? I have been thinking Westport Pilot 4 might be a good option -is it?.

I know I should go watch some boat launches at Polly steps but is it greatly tide dependent? On the kayaks we launch from Ringmore and try and catch the tides right in and out which combined with weather really limits our options (and we can faff for England getting set up and ready!). Is Polly Steps doable at low, high and mid tides - or does it run out of water at low and the current runs too hard mid tides for novices?

Lastly, for now, our fishfinders (Garmin strikers) on the kayak show a featureless and pretty barren bottom (and never any fish other than shoals of sandeels occasionally) and i generally catch more and better fish from the beach. Would access further up and down the coast bring us more joy - I expect the islands off Hopes nose would be a bit more reliable? I think GPSGuru once suggested we kayak over to the Skerries on another forum  - from Torcross not Teignmouth! Would that sort of thing be doable if we trailered somewhere closer to launch?

Anyway apologies for the long post (without pictures!).

RogB

 

[Andy135]

What's the height of the top of your garage door? A boat on a trailer is higher/taller than you'd think, and if you go for a boat with a cuddy and radar arch you may find you run out of headroom. A rib or open boat may still fit.

As for size of boat, I started off with a 4.4m cuddy boat, then quickly went up to a 5m cuddy, then 8m wheelhouse. Bigger is usually better when it comes to boats - more stable, better sea-keeping, can take more weather etc. Go for the biggest you can afford and you'll likely get more enjoyment out of it, so you'll want to keep it longer. You'll also have an easier time selling a mid-sized boat than a small one in my view as there's more of a market for them. By mid-sized I mean 16.5ft/5m trailer boats such as a Warrior 165.

As for location, a boat (vs a yak) gives you the range and speed to fish new marks and marks further away. Also means you can stay out longer and you'll be less tired without the paddling. It'll also give you a wider range of weather conditions you can comfortably fish in. So logically I'd argue that a boat should see you catch more fish simply because it gives you more fishing time compared to a kayak.

As for trailering to the Skerries, there aren't any decent slips nearby (that I know of). The one at Torcross lets onto shingle so you'll need a tractor or serious 4x4 to get the boat wet. Hallsands/Beesands are beach launches too. The public slip by the Higher Ferry at Dartmouth is probably your best bet, but the parking is nightmarish, and parking with a trailer nigh on impossible.

[GPSguru]

 

With regard to keeping it in your garage, then not only length, but also height can be an issue if the boat has an A frame.

Security, I guess it depends on where you live, if you live in Shaldon, then I doubt security will be and issue. TBH a trailer left in a driveway with a hitch lock and wheel clamp is a pretty safe option.

23 minutes ago, RogB said:

Lastly, for now, our fishfinders (Garmin strikers) on the kayak show a featureless and pretty barren bottom (and never any fish other than shoals of sandeels occasionally) and i generally catch more and better fish from the beach.

Yes, the bottom out of Teignmouth is fairly barren, there is a tiny reef out by the yellow outflow buoy, and another close into Labrador bay. TBF you probably have seen fish on your striker, but you need to know how to interpret them.

Monday is afternoon school run for us, so we stopped off by Shaldon beach for an hour and I saw Stuart catch 4 Bass (I am guessing you know Stuart, as a local everybody knows him, and he is a very good lure angler as well).

You have probably seen us going in and out past the beach (Bluefin, a blue Ribcraft 585, usually with 6 -8 rods on the A frame ) and you may also have seen Gary going out past the point (Valkyrie, a blue white Orkney). I usually try to keep the speed limit past the beach as there are often anglers wading deeper than they should be !

Polly steps is tidal to a degree. The only tine you can't get in and out is Spring low, but if you need to get in then you can always land at Gales Hill. My boat needs the tide to be at 1.5m (as measured at New Quay), to give me safe passage in and out of Polly. With the engine fully down I have a draft of a little over 2ft. When the tide drops below 1.2m, even the 'yaks and jetski's are stuffed as the route to the channel is quite rocky. At 0.9m (low springs) you can walk out to the main channel from the slip !

When the tide is very occasionally 0.6m (once or twice a year) you can walk out and pick oysters from the slip to the channel.

 

 

[GPSguru]

1 hour ago, RogB said:

I think GPSGuru once suggested we kayak over to the Skerries on another forum  - from Torcross not Teignmouth! Would that sort of thing be doable if we trailered somewhere closer to launch?

Andy has covered most of this, however, for a fee, you can park and launch at the haven marina (Kingswear).

For me, it is a 40 - 45min steam from Teignmouth and that is very much quicker than driving to Dartmouth during the summer months. Passage planning is everything as there are a couple of places where the sea can turn more than a little rough at certain states of the tide with winds from a particular direction.

[JDP]

I tend to buy and sell boats quite often but have always found the bigger ones I’ve owned get used the least. 
That sweet spot for ease of use  either solo or with a couple of friends is around the 4.5-5.5m for me. At this size and with a decent 4 stroke they cost very little to run.

In the smaller sized boats here in Aus they tend to be manufactured so they will fit in garages, often with folding down consoles or Bimini tops etc. You can also get a trailer attachment which allows the front section of the drawbar to be swiveled, so the front of the trailer is the same length as the front of the boat. You can also turn the outboard on full side lock and angle the trailer slightly to gain even more room to get a boat inside.

In terms of using small boats, depending on the boat build you can often still use a small boat in very similar sea conditions to bigger boats. When my daughter has to cancel her charter trips in the 50ft cat we often head out in either my 4.4m centre console or her 5m zodiac.

Keeping your boat at home has many advantages, from keeping it of the weather to better security etc. There are also many other advantages too, such as being able to head to the garage and tinker with it when ever you please. 
 

The big thing with trailer boats in the UK is boat ramp launching facilities, or should I say lack of them. Here even in a small coastal town of 8000 people we have 13 council maintained free ramps, all with boat wash down facilities and fish cleaning tables. The travelling boat trailer communities are welcomed around the country as they bring in tourism $$$$. Here we tow boats far and wide around the country, with many of us towing boats to the far north during winter to find some mid 30’c further from our cold waters here in the south. This is another huge advantage obviously, being able to tow the boat where the fish are or to target different species around the country. 
 

Gale force winds, big ocean swells etc doesn’t mean the boat has to stay home, simply means looking for inland waters and fishing the weather protected side of rivers, dams and lakes etc, just like with the kayaks.
 

In terms of electronics, I had been using Navico gear, either simrad or lowrance for many years but found the units constantly had issues so moved over the Garmin gps map models which I’ve been very happy with. Many of the commercial game boats here also use Garmin these days. 
 

You can get decent marine charts for most units which show detailed survey sea floor mapping. These charts will show wrecks, reefs, ledges etc etc in high detail which is a huge advantage to how most of us used to fish. Side can, downscan and traditional transducers all have their place when finding fish. There are hundreds of tutorials online showing how to get the most from sounders, which unfortunately most people decide to ignore and would rather complain it’s all gimmicks simply because they haven’t bothered to learn how to use it. 

If you get the opportunity, always go with as much power as legally allowed on any vessel. More power will often equate to running at lower rpm, giving better economy but can also add to better safety if outrunning weather systems when you have a heavy load onboard. 

[Gordmac]

At that size a rib makes a lot of sense.

[JDP]

13 hours ago, Gordmac said:

At that size a rib makes a lot of sense.

Apart from the lack of space, maintenance issues and lack of space associated with Rhib's. They are often pretty tight width wise to get in your average garage too and having to deflate to drive in then inflate each trip would be a pain even with the 12v pumps. They are however a lot of fun.

[RogB]

On 7/10/2023 at 11:21 PM, Andy135 said:

What's the height of the top of your garage door? A boat on a trailer is higher/taller than you'd think, and if you go for a boat with a cuddy and radar arch you may find you run out of headroom. A rib or open boat may still fit.

 

On 7/10/2023 at 11:22 PM, GPSguru said:

With regard to keeping it in your garage, then not only length, but also height can be an issue if the boat has an A frame.

Security, I guess it depends on where you live, if you live in Shaldon, then I doubt security will be and issue. TBH a trailer left in a driveway with a hitch lock and wheel clamp is a pretty safe option.

Thanks for the replies everybody, please keep them coming!

One of the reasons I liked the look of the Pilot 4 is that the cuddy is removeable which should drop the height appreciably. I think a cuddy will be essential to get out of the rain showers or sun on a hot day. The garage entrance is 2m high so pretty reasonable.

However the biggest problem with the drive is that its 25m long and very steep drive(~1 in 4), luckily its straight to the garage but has a hairpin to the house! Cars tend to wheelspin if its wet so towing up will be a non starter (plus its very tight). I think I can fit an electric winch at the back of the garage, with a jockey wheel at the lip, which would work, but a light craft would obviously help. Again the Pilot 4 is relatively light. Winching will add to the faff somewhat! A winch however might prove useful for other things as well.  

The Pilot 4 seems to review well (admittedly most reviews nowdays are marketing - but these are boat fishing mags so perhaps they would be critical) - they are a bunch linked from the manufacturers site Pilot 4 and unsurprisingly all are very positive and say it feels much bigger than it is. It still in production and made in Plymouth. Are there any similar competitors to consider?

At the moment I think its either a small boat or nothing as we neither have the time, funds or experience for anything larger. I view a smaller boat partly as a training and experience building exercise so that when more time becomes available in later life we have the experience and some commitment already to base bigger purchases on.

I often chat with Stuart when I see him - he does winkle out fish when most are blanking, and all the other regulars on shaldon side - I'm the one in the grubby wide brimmed cream hat if you are zooming past!

I did watch a couple of boats head out last friday mid tide with a bit of wind against so there was some standing waves on the bar - the predator 165 out front bobbed up and down a good few times and then shot off right, the bigger Arvor following it didn't fancy it and turned around. If we were kayaking we would have nipped over the training wall before the waves, so size isn't everything!

I haven't looked into a RIB in detail but I doubt that they would be practical from a deck space, shelter and low freeboard point of view. Also probably too wide for the garage taking up too much space.

 Roger

 

[Saintly Fish]

@RogB my drive is very steep. I used to keep a 19ft fletcher speed boat on it. No way would my car get it up there . So I bought a 12v remote winch and bolted it to the floor. That way I could unhook the trailer and winch up the hill whilst being allowed to move around the trailer and boat making direction changes if needed. Could you not bolt a winch to your garage floor??

[RogB]

2 hours ago, Saintly Fish said:

@RogB my drive is very steep. I used to keep a 19ft fletcher speed boat on it. No way would my car get it up there . So I bought a 12v remote winch and bolted it to the floor. That way I could unhook the trailer and winch up the hill whilst being allowed to move around the trailer and boat making direction changes if needed. Could you not bolt a winch to your garage floor??

That's my exact plan - with a big battery and solar panel charger on the roof. Any recommendations for the winch?

[GPSguru]

3 hours ago, RogB said:

I often chat with Stuart when I see him - he does winkle out fish when most are blanking, and all the other regulars on shaldon side - I'm the one in the grubby wide brimmed cream hat if you are zooming past!

Yes, I know who you are 😉, I know Stuart quite well, but I tend to ‘watch’ from the sidelines 😉😇

Stuart  was also chatting with Chris ( he used to own the yacht snowstorm, and lives in marine parade), then of course there is the other Roger B that owns Bay View. 🤣🤣😇

 

[Saintly Fish]

1 hour ago, RogB said:

That's my exact plan - with a big battery and solar panel charger on the roof. Any recommendations for the winch?

I just bought one from eBay . I made sure it was German though! 

[JDP]

I back up a steep drive with boats from 2.5ton to 1500kg with a variety of vehicles. My drive is a pain as I have a steep road which my drive runs down to and also have to drive off the drive to get my boat down the side of the house because my daughter keeps her boat in my garage!!!!

With each of the last three 4x4's Ive owned, each have spun the wheels when I go off the gravel and grass onto the concrete drive, mostly due to the obscure angled the vehicle is at going from the main road hill to the drive hill.

A couple of diesel front wheel drive cars have made the reversing seem effortless and even a Ford Focus 2lt diesel was often used on one of the boats weighing in at 1.9 tons which did it with ease. Backing up hill with a front wheel drive seems pretty easy if you keep the momentum going. Hows your reversing skills ? If not great head off to a quiet place and practice over and over.

Personally a winch would be at the bottom of my list for getting a boat into the garage but if that's your only option make sure you have some sort a failsafe is something fails, you don't want a ton of boat flying down the drive into traffic. 

[RogB]

theres no space edge out to start the turn in reverse  - the lane is typical devon lane - 1 car wide, no pavements and a wall/house directly opposite the drive. Luckily the road is quiet and people are used to waiting for deliveries etc.

On 7/11/2023 at 12:25 AM, JDP said:

You can also get a trailer attachment which allows the front section of the drawbar to be swiveled, so the front of the trailer is the same length as the front of the boat.

I don't think these are legal in the UK - it was my first thought for shortening the space required but seem to be not allowed.

[Gordmac]

What about those caravan mover devices that drive the trailer wheels?

[JDP]

3 hours ago, RogB said:

theres no space edge out to start the turn in reverse  - the lane is typical devon lane - 1 car wide, no pavements and a wall/house directly opposite the drive. Luckily the road is quiet and people are used to waiting for deliveries etc.

I don't think these are legal in the UK - it was my first thought for shortening the space required but seem to be not allowed.

They aren't legal for us to buy and fit them either but if the trailer comes fitted from manufacturer then they are legal here. I think they just try to stop bodgy backyard mechanics doing it themselves.

It sounds like you have your work cut out for yourself, hopefully it doesn't end up being such hard work that you regret buying a boat. Have you considered trying to find somewhere to keep it where it might be easier to get on the water from and just keep it at home for the quieter months of the year.

[Andy135]

6 hours ago, JDP said:

It sounds like you have your work cut out for yourself, hopefully it doesn't end up being such hard work that you regret buying a boat. Have you considered trying to find somewhere to keep it where it might be easier to get on the water from and just keep it at home for the quieter months of the year.

Good suggestion. 👍 

[Saintly Fish]

Yep as @JDP says, maybe a local fishing club with a compound and slipway. Or failing that a caravan storage yard? 

[GPSguru]

17 hours ago, RogB said:

theres no space edge out to start the turn in reverse  - the lane is typical devon lane - 1 car wide, no pavements and a wall/house directly opposite the drive. Luckily the road is quiet and people are used to waiting for deliveries etc.

I don't think these are legal in the UK - it was my first thought for shortening the space required but seem to be not allowed.

You could leave it at Riverside Boatyard (opp Morrisons). My mate has his offshore 25 on its trailer over there. The place is secure, and you have the luxury of the on site grease monkey ( Jack), who’s work is excellent.

The cost isn't much different to mooring, but your boat is on dry land and in a secure compound.

Launching on their slip is similar tidal wise to polly steps, but easier because their slip is not in the tidal flow and also has a pontoon.

Edited July 13, 2023 by GPSguru

[RogB]

1 hour ago, GPSguru said:

You could leave it at Riverside Boatyard (opp Morrisons). My mate has his offshore 25 on its trailer over there. The place is secure, and you have the luxury of the on site grease monkey ( Jack), who’s work is excellent.

The cost isn't much different to mooring, but your boat is on dry land and in a secure compound.

Launching on their slip is similar tidal wise to polly steps, but easier because their slip is not in the tidal flow and also has a pontoon.

Thanks - that sounds like a good suggestion and minimal faffing. I am more open to paying for secure storage than for a mooring (a patch of gravel and a load of liabilities in my eyes!). I didn't know they also did accessible storage. I am aware of the Shaldon Marine storage yard but I expect thats mainly to overwinter boats. 

[GPSguru]

18 minutes ago, RogB said:

Thanks - that sounds like a good suggestion and minimal faffing. I am more open to paying for secure storage than for a mooring (a patch of gravel and a load of liabilities in my eyes!). I didn't know they also did accessible storage. I am aware of the Shaldon Marine storage yard but I expect thats mainly to overwinter boats. 

Shaldon Marine don't have a particularly good  name ! Also their yard is quite difficult access, and they tow over to polly for launch and recovery.

 Riverside is very secure, electric gates and you get your own keyfob. Also the slipway is dead easy. They now have a boat lift mobile gantry for larger boats.

Brother in laws quicksilver is in there at the moment for a full service, antifoul, and hull polish. 

 

[Saintly Fish]

57 minutes ago, GPSguru said:

Shaldon Marine don't have a particularly good  name ! Also their yard is quite difficult access, and they tow over to polly for launch and recovery.

 Riverside is very secure, electric gates and you get your own keyfob. Also the slipway is dead easy. They now have a boat lift mobile gantry for larger boats.

Brother in laws quicksilver is in there at the moment for a full service, antifoul, and hull polish. 

 

Is there space available there though?  Don't know what your area is like but Round here on the Solent the marinas etc are all rammed, with waiting times for berths! 

[GPSguru]

22 minutes ago, Saintly Fish said:

Is there space available there though?  Don't know what your area is like but Round here on the Solent the marinas etc are all rammed, with waiting times for berths! 

Yes, they usually have few spaces available, especially for smaller boats. Also some folk only store there in the winter, so yes, an all year space is available when claimed in the summer.

[thejollysinker]

4 hours ago, GPSguru said:

You could leave it at Riverside Boatyard (opp Morrisons). My mate has his offshore 25 on its trailer over there. The place is secure, and you have the luxury of the on site grease monkey ( Jack), who’s work is excellent.

The cost isn't much different to mooring, but your boat is on dry land and in a secure compound.

Launching on their slip is similar tidal wise to polly steps, but easier because their slip is not in the tidal flow and also has a pontoon.

When I first got my boat they (Stuart) charged me £20 a week for the three months I had it there 😏

My mooring costs about £580 for the year with a place on the trots for my dinghy. 
 

[thejollysinker]

2 hours ago, RogB said:

Thanks - that sounds like a good suggestion and minimal faffing. I am more open to paying for secure storage than for a mooring (a patch of gravel and a load of liabilities in my eyes!). I didn't know they also did accessible storage. I am aware of the Shaldon Marine storage yard but I expect thats mainly to overwinter boats. 

My boat is on a mooring at Polly Steps and has been there for 4 years plus now with no issues/liabilities.  580 odd quid with a trot mooring for the dinghy. The anti fouling is the biggest pain.