Structure scan

[Odyssey]

Hi all,

Im looking at options to get scruture scan on my Simrad set up. I’ve got a sounder but It’s basic… I’m looking to see if I can get a new transducer to get structure scan etc…. 
 

Unit(s) are SIMRAD NSE 12 with a full SIMNET backplane, I’m looking for temperature input as well as Struxture scan for wrecking/reefing….

How do I go about getting something into my current set up as cheap as I can? 🤔🤔🤔

[Andy135]

Do you mean sidescan? Or true StructureScan 3D mapping of the sea floor?

If the latter it won't be cheap (north of £1k). If the former then the TotalScan is the base model sidescan 'ducer that will get you side scanning and has the temp sensor.

https://www.echomasterdirect.co.uk/TotalScan™_Transom_Mount_Transducer

The Active Imaging 3 in 1 ducer is the next step up in imaging quality but is more expensive.

https://www.lowrance.com/en-gb/lowrance/type/sonar-transducers/activeimaging-3-in-1-transducer/

There is also the Tripleshot transducer that is much cheaper but I have a feeling it only works with the Lowrance Hook head unit.

I've found that the longer sidescan transducers don't pick up well at high speeds - I use my Active Imaging 'ducer at less than 5kts for best image quality and it seems to lose bottom at over 12-15kts due to hull turbulence. I have a shoot through Airmar for regular CHIRP and depth sounding at speed, so recommend you keep your regular sounder if it works at speed and run the sidescan as a second ducer for low speed only.

Edited to say that the prices of these transducers seem to have gone up (of course 🙄). They were comfortably less than £300 about 18 months ago, so don't delay in case they rise again.

[Odyssey]

Hmmm….

I think I’d need a sonar module as well as transducer…. 
 

Or I just keep an eye out for a cheap unit on flea bay….

[Andy135]

8 minutes ago, Odyssey said:

Hmmm….

I think I’d need a sonar module as well as transducer…. 
 

Or I just keep an eye out for a cheap unit on flea bay….

NSE seems to be the pro version of the NSS, and as such may be compatible with the TotalScan. Googling has proved inconclusive but if you do need a sounder module as well as a transducer then you're relegated to older kit e.g. LSS 1 or 2 that will give you first gen sidescan. I sold an LSS 1 module and 'ducer to @suzook12 a while back, so maybe if you sweet-talk him a deal could be done?

Otherwise it's ebay I'm afraid. Or buy a small screen version of the latest Lowrance HDS or Simrad equivalent that will take the sidescan transducer natively and use an ethernet connection to push the transducer data to your NSE.

[Odyssey]

I saw a Lowrance unit went for £200… should of got it 😢

Ill keep looking on fleabay 🙂 

[JDP]

2 hours ago, Odyssey said:

I saw a Lowrance unit went for £200… should of got it 😢

Ill keep looking on fleabay 🙂 

Be careful buying anything secondhand from lowrance or simrad. I used lowrance products for over 20yrs but replaced them all at about 2yr periods. Many mine had been replaced under warranty issues.

Simrads, especially the larger screen units seem to be going through a tough time at the moment. The commercial boat I skipper from time to time has its second 16inch simrad in 6 months and the new one shuts down for no reason as you are heading along. The new boat I posted on here a few weeks ago also has a 16 simrad which after the second trip out has now been replaced after just 4 trips. My own boat has both Garmin and a simrad evo3 simrad which again shuts down as Im going along and takes so long to boot back up I tend to leave it off and just use the Garmin all day. One of my daughter's boss's boat has a 24 simrad which has just been replaced under warranty, which is now for sale still in the box as he's installed a Garmin instead. 

A couple of things to consider before you dive in and buy sidescan (structure scan etc) what depths are you going to be searching for wrecks and fish in and what power does the head unit punch out. Last time I looked at the Navico (simrad lowrance) offerings only had relatively shallow water performing sidescan where Garmin have a 260khz sidescan transducer which works very well in depths double the others can do. My Garmin transducer will scan out to around 250m each side of the boat in 140m of water but the 60-80m is where it performs best because of my smaller screen size (10inch). There are plenty of tricks to using sidescan to get more out of it rather than just trying to plug and play so if you do get one check out some of the online tutorials on getting the most out of them, many people dont get good results as they dont know how to use them properly.

[Andy135]

Here's a guide to getting the best out of sidescan transducers 😉

https://www.offshoreoutlaws.co.uk/articles.html/articles/sea-floor-imaging-with-side-scan-transducers-r3/

[JDP]

2 hours ago, Andy135 said:

Here's a guide to getting the best out of sidescan transducers 😉

https://www.offshoreoutlaws.co.uk/articles.html/articles/sea-floor-imaging-with-side-scan-transducers-r3/

Thats exactly what I was referring to in terms of tweaking them, as you can see in one of those screen shots the unit has simply been left in auto for contrast which makes the screen look very lacking in detail and spotting fish very difficult. Also there is the standard 455-800khz limits of lowrance and simrad. No ultra high definition and no deep water or wide sidescan range. I really struggled to see any fish in any of those screen shots.

[Andy135]

I tend to leave mine in auto and use it to find bottom features which attract fish. In the UK there aren't the large shoals of fish that you get over there, so I wouldn't necessarily expect to see fish. However I will give the manual settings another fiddle to see if I can take some better screenshots.

[Odyssey]

I’m after water temp and also better definition of pinnacles/rocks for wreck finding.

Also if I can track individual large fish then even better. It’s more of a nice to have as don’t want to spend ££££ on it… got a few other things to do first so I’ll keep an eye on eBay/Facebook. Maybe someone will get a complete set up for Xmas and sell an older one cheap 🤣🤣🤣

[Odyssey]

Didn’t win on eBay…

Theres a 9 inch elite on Facebook but wants £800…. Was hoping to spend a bit less 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Id anyone knows of one going cheap let me know 🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

[Andy135]

5 minutes ago, JonC said:

Does lowrance kit talk to your simrad tech? 

Should do - they're all part of the Navico Group and are basically the same hardware in different external casings.

[Saintly Fish]

21 minutes ago, JonC said:

Ah ok, I was thinking that if it didn’t need to network then there’s a guy on here that was useful for another brand. 

Yeah how's that new MFD working for you?

[JDP]

Ive got bits of lowrance, simrad and Garmin all networked into nmea 2000 and can mix some, my point one Lowrance communicates with both simrad and Garmin all networked together. Also three transducers but these dont work together as they aren't networked, so only work on the Garmin, however the Airmar hw 175 did work off the simrad until I changed the plug to a Garmin fitting.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by JDP

[Odyssey]

I’ll check on the boat to see if I’ve got the Sonar Hub box already… If I do it maybe a case of a new transducer on the stern and wire it to the magic box and then it should be on the network…

Or more likely I will just not bother as don’t want to spend the money 😂😂😂

[Saintly Fish]

2 hours ago, JonC said:

I don’t think the guy ever ordered it, I’ll never hear from him again. 

That's a shame. Some people are just not trust worthy. 

[Saintly Fish]

1 minute ago, JonC said:

It reminds me of that time I paid that £10,000 to get the deeds to that diamond mine in Nigeria. I’m still waiting for them. 

Nigerian postal service is notoriously slow though. It's a long way for the postie to walk. 

[Odyssey]

Downscan not side scan is now the final decision! 
 

Im after definition of what’s under the boat for a quick reference when I’m reefing and wrecking… also useful to find Tuna and sharks (especially Porgies) when I’m trying new spots 🙂 

Looking for recommendations…

Lowrance Elite 9 or similar, needs to be able to connect to a NEMA2K network and I want integrated GPS as a back up as well as can never have too little when you’re 50 miles offshore….

[Andy135]

7 minutes ago, Odyssey said:

Downscan not side scan is now the final decision! 
 

Im after definition of what’s under the boat for a quick reference when I’m reefing and wrecking… also useful to find Tuna and sharks (especially Porgies) when I’m trying new spots 🙂 

Looking for recommendations…

Lowrance Elite 9 or similar, needs to be able to connect to a NEMA2K network and I want integrated GPS as a back up as well as can never have too little when you’re 50 miles offshore….

The Elite Ti2 range has a single NMEA2k port and also wireless networking, but not sure if that's of any use to you.

If you buy second-hand, make sure you do go for the Ti-2 version. The first Elite Ti version has no networking capabilities whatsoever.

[Odyssey]

New transducer on order… Totalscan 3 in 1. 
 

Im hoping I can get it delivered before boat comes out the water for annual service and I can get mechanic to fit to hull while boat is out of the water. Once it’s through the transom I can run the rest of the cable and wire it in 🙂 

Hopefulky identify a few fish holding features and having temperature is going to be useful for shark hunting 

[Odyssey]

Just seen that Simrad/Lowrance have put up their prices…. By about 20%! 
 

I had an email from Cactus Nav who said if you’re ordering electronics order now as prices will shoot up in new year due to part shortages etc. 

Worth bearing in mind if you’re looking for new kit 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Odyssey