jonnyswamp Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Bit of a follow on from fishys thread and been asked countless times no doubt But, is the Quicksilver 15w 40 "heavy duty marine" oil any better than a high quality 15w 40 that's used in plant that can cost hundreds of thousands of quids A mate is a plant fitter and can rescue some for me (supposedly top quality) Is it really worth the £8 per litre for the Quicksilver or have we all been brainwashed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 What are you using it in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Not good in a deep fat fryer. Saintly Fish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy135 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, jonnyswamp said: Bit of a follow on from fishys thread and been asked countless times no doubt But, is the Quicksilver 15w 40 "heavy duty marine" oil any better than a high quality 15w 40 that's used in plant that can cost hundreds of thousands of quids A mate is a plant fitter and can rescue some for me (supposedly top quality) Is it really worth the £8 per litre for the Quicksilver or have we all been brainwashed Good question. The general theme seems to be "why chance it?" but I'd be interested to know if there's an oil specialist about who can give the science behind it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyswamp Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 (edited) It's a 230 horse black mercruiser, is this oil specifically designed for high load engines (boat) as opposed to plant engines which basically runs hydraulic pumps ? Would like to see the specs of the different brands, not the cheap motor factor stuff, the well known brands Edited October 14, 2020 by jonnyswamp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 There are oil charts that you can compare the ‘ingredients’ of oils. It may be worth googling one and then cross referencing a couple against the quicksilver stuff . Some of the specialist oils are advertised with a special ingredient, but I reckon it’s a con. bit like washing machines live longer with calgon....... they don’t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Do you know what oil Stuart at Arvor marine parts supplies with his service kits? for how much the difference is I buy my stuff from him, my vw kit comes with Quantum in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyswamp Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 Agree, doubt gets planted in your mind, so you go for the dearest because you think it's the best and it quite often isn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 7 minutes ago, Saintly Fish said: There are oil charts that you can compare the ‘ingredients’ of oils. It may be worth googling one and then cross referencing a couple against the quicksilver stuff . Some of the specialist oils are advertised with a special ingredient, but I reckon it’s a con. bit like washing machines live longer with calgon....... they don’t But the Calgon jingle is so catchy- it must work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzook12 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 (edited) There is a site Bob the oil guy, that has lots of oil sampling results on it, both new and used...... Now, it's supposedly all about the spec and some will also tell you there is no point going over spec. Admittedly, you have to be careful with some long service life oils as they can destroy seals in older engines.... This argument has raged within the bike world also. But a while back when I first got in to rade accounts etc I ran some tests. Basically, my 13,000rpm gsxr 750 was the test donkey. With a cheaper on spec oil, I was using a litre to 500 miles. The best (Silkolene Pro 4 fully synthetic) never needed topping up between oil changes, in fact, I even managed to extend service intervals by almost double (until the oil went black) and it worked out cheaper in the long run. So, would I run fully synthetic over semi, hell yeah, would I use "marine" oil over known good stuff? No. as boat engines generally dont get run while submerged, I don't see the need for extra "corrosion" resistance......... The obvious answer is use what you are happy using, after all, if it does go wrong, it's your wallet that is repairing it As an aside, £8/Litre is cheap Edited October 14, 2020 by suzook12 jonnyswamp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzook12 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Bruce- I see you purposely missed out quoting my qualifier..... On 10/14/2020 at 10:05 PM, suzook12 said: The obvious answer is use what you are happy using, after all, if it does go wrong, it's your wallet that is repairing it As an aside, £8/Litre is cheap I also see that the poor old plant engine gets an easy life according to you guys.... I mean it's not like auto start emegency generators don't sit around doing nothing for months on end, then when they get the nod, straight to max load, no warm up etc, no waiting for oil to get to turbo before asking for max boost.... You will find these style of engines have a high molyndenum content, sticks like shit to a blanket and as an offshoot, prevents corrossion...... Marine spec oils are more about being eco friendly, and because of such, most ingredients have been removed. Pick an oil and research it, ignore the ad blurb, send some off for sampling, say motul, that has a corresponding oil, compare the difference if you can find any. Older engines were given an API rating, that changed when the new F-CW specs came out, still the same engines........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzook12 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 40 minutes ago, J Hook said: No, I specifically quoted the submerged bit as it has relevance to the oil spec. Outboards are bad enough when it comes to being exposed to the elements but inboards have a particularly harsh life as they have a terrible humid and dank environment. But what ever way you look at it, either, or both engine types sit in water, and exposed to a pretty corrosive environment. Most run precious few hours leaving the environment to do it's dirty and contaminate the oils to boot weeks at a time and sometimes months. Lets face it. You wouldn't park your car on the beach for the week after dumping it in the sea over the weekend, even if the panels were plastic. Thats a pretty pointless analogy, if I dumped my car in the sea. the engine would be full of salt water, If I parked it on the beach for a week I would expect it to start as normal....... And you still havent answered about the engine that is identical pre F-CW that is spec'd on SN oil, but you cant use it in the newer engine..... And who said that the oil presented for testing isn't the bog stock SN spec oil? Or diesel spec oil? Some of us bikers know that we are told that we should use JASO rated oil in our bikes, we also know that SN oil has identical makeup (equiv oil from same manufacturer), but one is considerably more expensive than the other...... F-CW and TCW oils are more about being eco friendly in the water than about better performance in the engine. That said, some brands are better than others, and over speccing eliminates issues even further, ie, fully synthetic as opposed to semi. Take the boating part even further, most boat engine oils are changed well ahead of necessity anyway, unless of course, you actually dunk it. Oil samples would be ineteresting reading I fancy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyswamp Posted October 31, 2020 Author Share Posted October 31, 2020 So Bruce came back, then went again ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzook12 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Strange...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiDfish Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 I once had a chat with an oil technician, who had some simple recommendations: Unit construction bikes, fully synthetic as the gear box chops the mineral oil molecules to bits (hence usage) also high revs and intricate parts Pre-unit (seperate gearbox) mineral or semi-synthetic, often monograde for old engines (eg straight 30 in triumph twins) Inboards depend on original use and type of engine. Mineral or semi synthetic for mercruiser v8 (car) and truck (eg volvo, sabre, perkins etc), but fully synthetic for modern, high revving such as Yanmar Outboards= semi synthetic for car based, fully synthetic for high revving purpose built (eg. verado). Use fully synthetic for all if run at WOT often He also reckoned that the cheap and expensive oils were made in the same plants, so just put fully synthetic mid-price oil in everything! There are always specialists of course, and firms like Silkolene, as suzook suggested, produce racing oils that give added protection if you give everything constant stick, which is why their oil is in my outboard, ex. bikes, but not car! suzook12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDP Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 (edited) I have a good fishing buddy who is an advisor on oils to different oil companies and motor industries around the world. When I asked him if I needed to stick with Yamaha's own oil or could I use a different manufacturer with the same spec, this was his reply. There's also a link in his response for compatible oils for other engine manufacturers. Sorry about the way I copied and stuck this info together. He has since helped me out in regards to some auto gearbox oil which the particular manufacturer was going to charge $1200 to replace, he pointed out the exact same oil from Mitsubishi would cost $300, simply same oil but different manufacturer label. So these are all the oils my old Yamaha could use, not simply one that my local dealer had tried to push. Edited November 13, 2020 by JDP Andy135 and SiDfish 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzook12 Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 Yeah, but I think the point is there are many more that can be used that aren't FC-W registered, your guy there has even mentioned API SG which has been surpassed a long time ago. Do people that live right beside the sea that may not use their cars that often have to use different oil? No.... And some oils mentioned actually have a quite high molybdenum content that makes it sticky as hell, and coats cams etc for a long time and prevents them rusting.... There are test houses out there that publish analysis results of various oils, that show many specialist oils (FC-W, JASO etc) are identical in every way as the common API spec oil from the same manufacturer..... I've seen tests showing quicksilver gear oil against a similar common spec oil that was actually worse than the cheapy for anti corrosion.... Also consider there are many engines out there, inboard and outboard, that either were around or their base engine was around before FC-W even existed, yrt you are now expected to stump up extra for "special" oil. What you have to understand is that oil is big business yet quite a cheap comodity. So any chance they have of making more money through branding and special purpose, they will take it....... Is there special oil for a drag race engine? No there isnt, and these get a much harder life than an outboard ever will unless you into submerging a running engine!! Using a good quality oil seems far more important than many other factors...... For the doubters, the info is out there, just involves a bit of internet legwork, or don't.... I'm not advocating anyone use anything, as said earler, it's down to whatever they and their wallets are happy with...... SiDfish and jonnyswamp 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiDfish Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Other important considerations here are the frequency of changing oils and filters. No excuse with outboards, but a necessary pain with inboards. I normally change at half recommended hours, maybe a few more. Engines are usually the biggest investment in a boat yet they're maintained on a little as possible basis, not on what they need. I see lots of outboards that only get maintained every 100hrs, which can be years! My mate recently brought a 70hp suzuki back from the dead. It was on the back of a RIB and has done less than 30hrs, so has had no servicing whatsoever, since new in 2014, and sits in a marina 365 days a year! It's all very well having the latest, highest spec, oil you can buy but the cooling system needs to be kept at optimum performance too. Don't change a knackered impeller, change one that is still good. A hot engine will quickly kill your oil and then the engine itself JonC and Saintly Fish 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) Oil change every year.... impeller plugs and gear oil every 2 years or 200hours. Boat out in 2 weeks for full service so anodes, timing belts, oils, filters, fuel filters, plugs. Thats on outboards that don’t use pushed hard... Should be good for another 1000 hours... so about 10-15 years.... Edited November 17, 2020 by Odyssey SiDfish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDP Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 I do around four 100hr oil changes per year and always do the gearbox oil on each (as recommended in the service schedule) but replace the impeller every 200hrs. Anodes on the powerhead are lasting an easy 600hrs on the Yam but not even half that on the Suzuki. External anodes were only replaced once over the two years (950hrs) of running the Yam and that was when I sold it. Like Sidfish mentions, it all comes down to how much the engine is used and if its kept on the water or not. Any outboard service mechanic over here will agree that engines that run most days and are run for long periods out last outboards that are simply used for a quick run out to the fishing grounds every other weekend. We can expect 6000-10000hrs out of a commercial used outboard to around 1500hrs out of a recreational one. SiDfish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 When my engines are run it’s for long periods.... 2 hours each way. Usage drops in the winter but still get started up and run. This year is exceptional due to COVID but usually used at least twice per month, even if it’s a blast in sheltered water. Anodes are by inspection only. I’m getting them done in next service (gulp) for piece of mind. At 1000 hours I’m close-ish to mid life so it’s just good practice. Then I can know I can head offshore and get home safely 🙂 Just need weather to improve over Xmas so I can get out and about! SiDfish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Odyssey said: When my engines are run it’s for long periods.... 2 hours each way. Usage drops in the winter but still get started up and run. This year is exceptional due to COVID but usually used at least twice per month, even if it’s a blast in sheltered water. Anodes are by inspection only. I’m getting them done in next service (gulp) for piece of mind. At 1000 hours I’m close-ish to mid life so it’s just good practice. Then I can know I can head offshore and get home safely 🙂 Just need weather to improve over Xmas so I can get out and about! I take it you got a better price than the first one for the service? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 12 minutes ago, JonC said: I take it you got a better price than the first one for the service? Try 1/3 of the price from the local main Yamaha dealer.... 3 hours labour for service and 1.5 hours for the cambelt. That’s per engine. It’s quicker than I can do.... so I’ll save myself the hassle and hernia that I would end up with trying to drop the gear box off as it’s bloody heavy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDP Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 On 11/18/2020 at 9:11 PM, Odyssey said: When my engines are run it’s for long periods.... 2 hours each way. Usage drops in the winter but still get started up and run. This year is exceptional due to COVID but usually used at least twice per month, even if it’s a blast in sheltered water. Anodes are by inspection only. I’m getting them done in next service (gulp) for piece of mind. At 1000 hours I’m close-ish to mid life so it’s just good practice. Then I can know I can head offshore and get home safely 🙂 Just need weather to improve over Xmas so I can get out and about! By that comment do you mean you only expect to get 2000 hrs from your engines ? what make are they? The urchin boat I regularly drive has a three year old Yam 225 with over 4000hrs and performs like new and never had a single problem. One of our tv fishing show hosts have just fitted a big Yam with 3500 hrs on their project boat which is considered just run in https://www.boatsales.com.au/editorial/details/hook-line-and-sinker-pride-sea-raider-project-boat-part-1-126959/ Ive heard of some commercial guys putting 8000 hrs on their engines without any problems at all over here. Even more hours on the smaller powered outboards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) Oh no, 15 years is a long time to own the boat, I’ll have won the lottery or paid my mortgage off or robbed a bank to pay for a swift cat by then 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 On A serious note it’s a Twin Yam 300s. I spoke to a commercial guy in Milford. In his words.... ”I’m running twin 200HPs on my cheetah 9.1m. Engines are lasting well. I’ve done 7000 hours on the power heads, but I did have to change a gear box at 6000hours. The other is still working fine” If it lasts that many hours it’ll outlive me 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Edited November 19, 2020 by Odyssey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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