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Leader Knots


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My new toy arrived today. I have been trying to get a Shimano one for almost a year, but they don't seem to be available in the Uk and Shimano in Oz and Singapore will not allow shops to export this product (I have no idea why ?). There are many Chinese copies, but not many have good reviews. However, Trabucco have come to the rescue with their version of the 'Bobbin Knotter', not cheap, but it makes life easy.

Currently I use a Bimini Twist knot on my 80lb top shot and then an Australian Plait Knot for the wind on leader loop. On my wrecking gear I usually tie a Yucatan , which is easy ti tie in seconds and very strong. Sometimes I use the FG knot, but on a rocking boat, they are a PITA to tie.

Closely associated to the FG knot is the PR knot. They are essentially the same thing, except the FG is 'woven' and the PR is 'overlapped' , but both have the same end result which is a cross looped tourniquet onto the leader material, which works the same as a 'pulling sock' or Chinese finger trap. The strength of a well tied FG and PR knot is 90 - 100% of the line BS.  The PR, being overlapped needs to be longer than the FG (woven), but both are extremely slimline and will fit through the smallest of guides.

With the bobbin knotter, a PR knot can be tied very easily .............

Bobbin.thumb.JPG.50f5dcdb672958f0bfa40573052f1ae7.JPG

 

Here is an Ozzy 'how to' vid

 

Here is the Yank vid especially for @Andy135 .......... notice the T-shirt logo 🤣

 

 

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Good post. I'm a huge FG knot fan, having used it for bass luring and on the boat. It's possible to tie it in a rocking tub, but as you say, it quickly gets hard to make a good job of it. On dry land however it's quite simple.

The thing that puts me off using a tying tool is that it's yet another bit of kit to take out with you, and if you forget or lose it you can't tie new knots during a session.

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5 minutes ago, Andy135 said:

Good post. I'm a huge FG knot fan, having used it for bass luring and on the boat. It's possible to tie it in a rocking tub, but as you say, it quickly gets hard to make a good job of it. On dry land however it's quite simple.

The thing that puts me off using a tying tool is that it's yet another bit of kit to take out with you, and if you forget or lose it you can't tie new knots during a session.

 

I generally only use the FG / PR for Shark fishing. A bimini is almost impossible to tie nicely on the boat !

When wreck fishing I like to build in a weak point that I know will give first, fore me that is the Yucatan which is still a good knot but tops out at 80 - 90% of the line BS.

So, it will never break on a fish, but on a solid pull when snagged it will break at the knot, more often than not .............

The problem with the FG/PR, is when snagged the knot is so reliable that the braid will go at the weakest point and usually break close to the reel , which s a bummer in 200ft of water !

Wrecking, I use 28lb braid to a 28lb or 30lb leader, My lure trace is usually 50lb rig body as I need it to be quite stiff to avoid 'drop down tangles' ...........

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Good couple of vids there Ian. I always struggle with these types of knots, the bobbin makes it look easier but still a real faff when out on a boat. I think my eye sight let’s me down when tying these (and my patients). I use a similar knot but it’s made with the leader in a loop, pass the braid through the loop, wrap 12-14 times then back through the loop, pull tight then finish off. It’s not quite as skinny as these knots but real strong all the same and a lot easier to tie when on a rocking windy boat. 
That shimano bobbin is available on eBay, cheapest £52 from Japan with free postage.  

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Bimini twist is a nightmare to tie on dry land....

I go with a spider hitch. Usually breaks at 90-95% of breaking strain. Downside is a bit clunky if you’re uptiding. Works well sharking. 
 

Use the polomar knot for reefing/wrecking as very simple and very strong but needs extra turns with braid to stop it slipping 

Edited by Odyssey
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4 hours ago, Saintly Fish said:

Good couple of vids there Ian. I always struggle with these types of knots, the bobbin makes it look easier but still a real faff when out on a boat. I think my eye sight let’s me down when tying these (and my patients). I use a similar knot but it’s made with the leader in a loop, pass the braid through the loop, wrap 12-14 times then back through the loop, pull tight then finish off. It’s not quite as skinny as these knots but real strong all the same and a lot easier to tie when on a rocking windy boat. 
That shimano bobbin is available on eBay, cheapest £52 from Japan with free postage.  

If you want a smaller stronger knot Neil, then do it the other way round. Put a loop in the braid, wrap it 12 times around the leader and then pass the leader tag end through the braid loop ... and you will have tied a yucatan knot, which will pull up really small. When pulling up, once the knot has begun to loosely form, let the tag end of the leader fall free an just pull on the leader. 

For most of our fishing, simple knots are quite sufficient, but sharks and tuna require strong knots, especially when using a top shot of mono.

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1 hour ago, GPSguru said:

If you want a smaller stronger knot Neil, then do it the other way round. Put a loop in the braid, wrap it 12 times around the leader and then pass the leader tag end through the braid loop ... and you will have tied a yucatan knot, which will pull up really small. When pulling up, once the knot has begun to loosely form, let the tag end of the leader fall free an just pull on the leader. 

For most of our fishing, simple knots are quite sufficient, but sharks and tuna require strong knots, especially when using a top shot of mono.

Thanks, I’ll give that a go. 

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6 hours ago, GPSguru said:

 

This is a quicker way to use the bobbin, I have tried it tonight and the knot is exceptional in both neatness and strength 👍

 

 

Think I gotta get one of those. What size line does it take or do they do different sizes? 

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Just been putting new leaders a few outfits using my jigging master bobbin. Once you master the start of the wrap and maintaining the correct tension you will wonder how you did without it.

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5 hours ago, Saintly Fish said:

Think I gotta get one of those. What size line does it take or do they do different sizes? 

They seem to be one size. I have tried 100lb braid and also 30lb braid, it tied both just fine.

I will tie up a knot tonight in 30lb braid to 30lb leader and post up the result.

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Hi @GPSguru
 

Do you know of anything to help tie a Bimini twist? It’s a knot I’ve always struggled with (hence spider hitch!) 

Any tips for braid to mono leaders for the big stuff? 🙂 

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3 hours ago, Odyssey said:

Hi @GPSguru
 

Do you know of anything to help tie a Bimini twist? It’s a knot I’ve always struggled with (hence spider hitch!) 

Any tips for braid to mono leaders for the big stuff? 🙂 

What do you  want to join ?

For braid to mono topshot I used the use bimini twist or FG , but now I will use the PR which is an FG variation, but with the bobbin it is a 2 min job. Later I will tie 80lb  braid to 200lb mono using the bobbin and pot a pic of the knot.

My wind on leaders have a dacron loop end, so I tie an ozzy plait knot to make a top shot loop and then multiple loop them .

like this

 

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3 hours ago, GPSguru said:

What do you  want to join ?

For braid to mono topshot I used the use bimini twist or FG , but now I will use the PR which is an FG variation, but with the bobbin it is a 2 min job. Later I will tie 80lb  braid to 200lb mono using the bobbin and pot a pic of the knot.

My wind on leaders have a dacron loop end, so I tie an ozzy plait knot to make a top shot loop and then multiple loop them .

like this

 

 

I haven't seen anyone use these wind ons in a few years, thought most people gave up on them once the pr and fg knots started becoming popular.

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OK, so I had a play tonight,

Here is 28lb Spectra braid to 30lb Sakuma Nite Crystal,

100_1821.thumb.JPG.1da3883051fc8cfd42813f0eaef7c3e7.JPG

 

Just for Luke, here is 80lb Spectra to 200lb Sakuma Supacast. Not quite as neat as I would like, but it just needs a tiny bit of practise

100_1824.thumb.JPG.250bfb27bec2ad06a6a7f27d3026695d.JPG

 

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1 minute ago, Andy135 said:

They both look tidy enough Ian, and perfectly serviceable. Thanks for posting them up 👍

 

The drag tension is not critical, but you have to get it right to make it easy and to stop the line spinning under tension, once that has been mastered, then it is very easy indeed. The drag tension needs to be tight enough for a tight knot, but loose enough to stop the line spinning. I would think a couple of lb is about right.

 

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I’ve got used to tying the FG over my knees now, it keeps a nice tension on the line so the braid beds in nicely on the mono. I had no choice but get good at tying it as there’s normally three of us onboard so muggins here done all the knots until I taught my old man to tie it he’s 74 and got to grips with it in front of the telly quite well.  I’ve not had one slip in the four years I’ve been tying it. 👌

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5 minutes ago, DINOBOY said:

I’ve got used to tying the FG over my knees now, it keeps a nice tension on the line so the braid beds in nicely on the mono. I had no choice but get good at tying it as there’s normally three of us onboard so muggins here done all the knots until I taught my old man to tie it he’s 74 and got to grips with it in front of the telly quite well.  I’ve not had one slip in the four years I’ve been tying it. 👌

Yep, you only have it slip once, then you never have it slip again. So simple to tie once you get it. It's my only leader knot these days.

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6 minutes ago, Andy135 said:

Yep, you only have it slip once, then you never have it slip again. So simple to tie once you get it. It's my only leader knot these days.

Me too other than mono to mono then it’s the Bimini every time 👍

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On 2/12/2021 at 12:05 AM, GPSguru said:

 

This is a quicker way to use the bobbin, I have tried it tonight and the knot is exceptional in both neatness and strength 👍

 

 

I got one of these after watching the vid. Tried it today and it’s a piece of piss to use! 

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2 minutes ago, Saintly Fish said:

I got one of these after watching the vid. Tried it today and it’s a piece of piss to use! 

It certainly is. I timed my knot tying, and it takes me 8min to tie an FG, 1.5min to tie a Yucatan, and after a bit of practise, about 45secs to tie a PR with the bobbin.

 

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1 hour ago, GPSguru said:

It certainly is. I timed my knot tying, and it takes me 8min to tie an FG, 1.5min to tie a Yucatan, and after a bit of practise, about 45secs to tie a PR with the bobbin.

 

8 minutes?? Fuck me, what takes you so long? 😉

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