Mobile devices

[Herbs73]

Sometime ago I loaded the navionics app on to my tablet and phone so I can plot courses etc at Home and then sync with my plotter when I’m on board, and also to have a back up incase  the plotter went down.

however I find myself using the iPad in conjunction with the plotter, I have each one on different views and magnification. This has made me wonder how much reliance we place on mobile devices and electronics In general.

 I was recently taking the piss out a youngster at work because he couldn’t use an A to Z to find his way around, but then I realised I couldn’t remember how to use dead reckoning, so I have just refreshed myself  (didn’t take long) 

So with  “use it or lose it”  or mind I’m going to try and once or twice a year navigate to a mark and back without using electronics, as it will be Sod’s law that when the plotter goes down The tablet will as well. 

Does anybody else try and keep their basic skills up to scratch. ?  I think there’s an awful lot of people who go to see and have never even looked at a paper chart. 

 

[Andy135]

Yes, guilty as charged. I'll fess up and say I've never used a paper chart. In the Solent and east Wight where I fish there are enough landmarks to enable navigation by eye should the need arise, but I know this doesn't help at night or in fog. I should probably get a paper chart and work out how to use it - can't hurt and could be a saviour in a sticky situation.

[Herbs73]

My thoughts exactly, I like to be as self reliant as possible and the thought of having to call the coast guard just for lack of some basic seamanship doesn’t sit well with me.
 

[Saintly Fish]

Me too, never used or even had a paper chart. I could however find my way back in the dark from the areas I fish. Anywhere outside of that area I'd struggle like mad and would have to either drop anchor and wait for daylight or call for help. 
It's shameful I know, but having the spare time (and spare brain cells) to learn is just something I don't have. 

[GPSguru]

7 hours ago, JonC said:

I could eat a pot noodle without boiling the kettle if push came to shove. 

According to others on here, you will eat anything and everything 🤣

[GPSguru]

10 hours ago, Herbs73 said:

Sometime ago I loaded the navionics app on to my tablet and phone so I can plot courses etc at Home and then sync with my plotter when I’m on board, and also to have a back up incase  the plotter went down.

however I find myself using the iPad in conjunction with the plotter, I have each one on different views and magnification. This has made me wonder how much reliance we place on mobile devices and electronics In general.

 I was recently taking the piss out a youngster at work because he couldn’t use an A to Z to find his way around, but then I realised I couldn’t remember how to use dead reckoning, so I have just refreshed myself  (didn’t take long) 

So with  “use it or lose it”  or mind I’m going to try and once or twice a year navigate to a mark and back without using electronics, as it will be Sod’s law that when the plotter goes down The tablet will as well. 

Does anybody else try and keep their basic skills up to scratch. ?  I think there’s an awful lot of people who go to see and have never even looked at a paper chart. 

 

IIRC, even commercials are no longer required to carry paper charts.

I don't carry paper charts, but I sure know how to use them after  years of practice, but I do have 2 independent plotters and my iPhone as the 3rd backup.

Also, these days I dont carry a tidal streams atlas, as the plotters give me all that info (and more) graphically.

If it all went tits up, I could find my way back to port OK.  I always (habit) glance at the compass on the way out, also having come back from various marks many times before using the plotters, I can pretty much remember what compass bearing I should be on.

TBH, local knowledge is everything.

 

 

[Andy135]

11 minutes ago, JonC said:

I carry paper charts compass Portland plotter and a set of dividers . If the tech goes down at sea in the fog having local knowledge isn’t all that great. You need to be able to know the distance travelled in what direction to get through the channels. A hundred yards out  could see me getting stuck on sand bar or worse. 

Do you really carry all that? Kudos if so - impressive.

[Andy135]

20 minutes ago, GPSguru said:

I don't carry paper charts, but I sure know how to use them after  years of practice, but I do have 2 independent plotters and my iPhone as the 3rd backup.

You make a good point here about in-built redundancy. How many of us rely on a single plotter/sounder combo to get us out and safely back? And what would the back-up be if it fails or blows a fuse? And how many of us carry spare fuses in all the sizes used on board?

[Andy135]

12 minutes ago, JonC said:

You must mark your position on the chart when you park up? 
In the unlikely event of total power loss how would you give your position in a Pan Pan or worse? 

A total power loss would be exceedingly unlikely between my 3 batteries, but assuming the worst did occur I'd give a verbal description like they teach you in the VHF course - "My position is 1 mile south of the Needles, drifting east into Freshwater Bay with the flooding tide."

And before you ask, I would be communicating on the handheld VHF that is clipped to my lifejacket, given that the total power loss would render my fixed unit unusable.

[GPSguru]

29 minutes ago, Andy135 said:

And how many of us carry spare fuses in all the sizes used on board

I do, but often a fuse blows for a reason, and it is there for your safety, if you replace a blown fuse then it is likely to blow immediately as the item it is providing protection for, is probably faulty. I carry the fuses for replacement AFTER I have located the fault !

I also carry a cheap multimeter.

[GPSguru]

18 minutes ago, JonC said:

You must mark your position on the chart when you park up? 
In the unlikely event of total power loss how would you give your position in a Pan Pan or worse? 

Just refer to your mobile phone, it will give you your GPS position, regardless whether you have GSM service or not.

But may you have a very old dinosaur phone without GPS ?

Also, you could use the 'These 3 Words App' to give your location.

 

 

 

 

[Andy135]

Agree. Have full fuse sets on Jersey Girl and also had them on Apache.

[GPSguru]

53 minutes ago, JonC said:

If the tech goes down at sea in the fog having local knowledge isn’t all that great.

Personally, I wouldn't be out in fog, as fishing is not that important and can wait for a better day.

Getting caught out in thick fog is bad seamanship, by not keeping a weather visual, and not understanding the forecast.

Many a time I have been out and sea mist has crept in from one direction or another. I determine its visual path and if it doesn't seem to be clearing, wait until the visibility is a little less than a mile, then I head back in.

Understanding the weather is as equally important as being adept in navigation, they go hand in hand.

[Saintly Fish]

2 hours ago, JonC said:

I personally don’t think getting  caught out by a bit of fog is as bad in terms of seamanship as relying on a mobile phone as your back up plan, but what do I know? 
I bet you lot don’t even have a log onboard to measure your speed, obviously adjusted against tide 

When (if ever) we come up to fish on Janie, I look forward to a practical demonstration of your manual navigation skills and log keeping. 
 

[Odyssey]

If I lose power I’ve lost engine…

3 plotters, 3 GPS inputs, radar, compass and depth can give me a good position if I don’t have GPS. 
 

It’s all about risk. Manual plotting is a useful skill but no way you can update a course at 20knts while dodging pot buoys/WAFIs who aren’t keeping a look out as too busy looking at bits of paper down below…

[Malc]

Interesting POV's, there is no way that I could have a chart etc on my kayak but I do have a minimum of three independent devices so unless there is a catastrophe I should be OK. I have a plotter which is the main navigation aid but I also have a HH radio with compass and a smartphone but I haven't tried using the latter two at sea so that's something I need to address. It might seem to be overkill but I am under my own power and although I tend to fish 1-1/2 miles out they come into their own if a fret comes in or I'm fishing into the dark. 

Re fog. I have gone out in fog, once with 3 others in close proximity and  once alone knowing that the fog was going to lift, both were in an area I knew well and had just pot boats working in the area. During a general conversation in the former the "know-it-all" said that you don't need the navigation aids on a kayak as you can hear the noise from traffic and the beach was "that way". I said OK let's have a short paddle "that way" and I will show you on the plotter. Off we went 100m, and then stopped. Next stop would have been Norway! However I am not immune, on the second time it was going to be a hot sunny day and the beach would be packed so we were there early as my wife enjoys sunbathing and wanted a good spot. Off I went from a rapidly filling beach and just off the beach was a pot boat setting a line, so I avoided him by going a little to stbd and heading off into the fog. The voices were echoing about as was the engine noise and after a 1/4 mile I saw a blurry few figures in the fog and I thought it was 3 paddle boarders. Nope, I hadn't been looking at the plotter just thinking I would check after the l cleared the inshore reefs and had done a 180' curve back to the beach and the figures were paddling in the shallows 🥴

[Herbs73]

21 hours ago, JonC said:

I carry paper charts compass Portland plotter and a set of dividers . If the tech goes down at sea in the fog having local knowledge isn’t all that great. You need to be able to know the distance travelled in what direction to get through the channels. A hundred yards out  could see me getting stuck on sand bar or worse. 

Quite agree, I have a chart on board but my dividers etc have been at home which I’m going to rectify.

if the electronics go down you know it will be foggy and low water . There’s a lot of sand banks for us to hit with not much margin for error. 

[Odyssey]

11 hours ago, JonC said:

I would think that if you were in shit hitting fan situation such as tech failure in heavy fog then you wouldn’t be blasting about at 20 knots though?

Exactly… drive to conditions 

[Herbs73]

20 hours ago, Andy135 said:

A total power loss would be exceedingly unlikely between my 3 batteries, but assuming the worst did occur I'd give a verbal description like they teach you in the VHF course - "My position is 1 mile south of the Needles, drifting east into Freshwater Bay with the flooding tide."

And before you ask, I would be communicating on the handheld VHF that is clipped to my lifejacket, given that the total power loss would render my fixed unit unusable.

 You don’t need a complete power loss you only need the display on your plotter to to go tits up. This happened on my vhf whilst out.
 Being able to “manually navigate”  enables you to get home without calling the coast guard.  

[Odyssey]

1 minute ago, Herbs73 said:

 You don’t need a complete power loss you only need the display on your plotter to to go tits up. This happened on my vhf whilst out.
 Being able to “manually navigate”  enables you to get home without calling the coast guard.  

I agree… but I had 2 plotters and my GPS puck failed so I had my back up GPS from my AIS transponder on the network take over. 
 

A new puck was ££££ so I got a 2nd hand Simrad unit to add to my network for less money than a new NEMA2K puck… that had an inbuilt GPS…. I fixed the old puck but only after I had fitted my 2nd hand MFD…. So now it looks like star ship enterprise 🤣🤣 but I’ve got 3 MFDs, 3 GPS inputs hence my comments about relying on electronics. 
 

However, even with Radar and an AIS transponder and a full radar reflector I don’t head out in fog… If fog comes done I can get home.

Obvioouaky electronics can fail, just as my spaniel can eat a paper chart… so it’s all about risk management..

[Andy135]

10 minutes ago, Herbs73 said:

 You don’t need a complete power loss you only need the display on your plotter to to go tits up. This happened on my vhf whilst out.
 Being able to “manually navigate”  enables you to get home without calling the coast guard.  

Agreed - unit failure could also cause issues, which is why GPS's point above about redundancy is worthwhile i.e. have more than one plotter, so that if one should fail you can still navigate home on the other.

[Andy135]

6 minutes ago, Odyssey said:

I agree… but I had 2 plotters and my GPS puck failed so I had my back up GPS from my AIS transponder on the network take over. 
 

A new puck was ££££ so I got a 2nd hand Simrad unit to add to my network for less money than a new NEMA2K puck… that had an inbuilt GPS…. I fixed the old puck but only after I had fitted my 2nd hand MFD…. So now it looks like star ship enterprise 🤣🤣 but I’ve got 3 MFDs, 3 GPS inputs hence my comments about relying on electronics. 
 

However, even with Radar and an AIS transponder and a full radar reflector I don’t head out in fog… If fog comes done I can get home.

Obvioouaky electronics can fail, just as my spaniel can eat a paper chart… so it’s all about risk management..

4 MFD's with inbuilt GPS here, plus a standalone GPS/electronic compass, plus a regular ships compass. And as it happens I too have a perpetually hungry spaniel... 🐶

[Andy135]

1 minute ago, JonC said:

On a more serious note, I had a major tech failure on Saturday. I ran out of gas. I had only put half the pack of bacon in and it was just about crisping up enough to have a roll each (brown sauce). We had no hot water all day for coffee or pot noodles. This sort of thing is a real harsh learning curve. I considered putting out a pan pan but I felt a little embarrassed at my poor planning. 

I'm with you on the brown sauce. Ketchup has no place on my plate whatsoever.

[Saintly Fish]

Just now, Andy135 said:

I'm with you on the brown sauce. Ketchup has no place on my plate whatsoever.

Mayonnaise , it's the only sauce to have! Being a posh lad @Andy135id have thought you would know that. 

[Saintly Fish]

14 minutes ago, JonC said:

I thought you had hollandaise on your eggs Benedict and salmon for breakfast? 

I do, but bacon demands the continental touch