Saintly Fish Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 What weight can an 8-12lb, or 20-30lb class rod actually handle ? is it the weight of fish they are designed for or the strength of line you should use on them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 It is the strength of line they are suitable for as a shock absorber, theoretically a 20lb class rod would be fully curved at 20lb of resistance ok I know 20lb is mass and resistance should be measured in Newton’s but bollox) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy135 Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 I always understood it to be the breaking strain of the line they were intended to be used with. The rod maker will make certain assumptions about the type of fishing you'll be doing with a rod of a particular line class and will design the action of the rod to suit those assumptions e.g. 6-12lb rods are more likely to be used for bream, plaice and so on, in smaller tides and shallower marks - therefore no need to haul up a 1lb lead every time, therefore the action of the rod can be softer and more sporting on lighter fish. JonC and Geoff 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, Andy135 said: I always understood it to be the breaking strain of the line they were intended to be used with. The rod maker will make certain assumptions about the type of fishing you'll be doing with a rod of a particular line class and will design the action of the rod to suit those assumptions e.g. 6-12lb rods are more likely to be used for bream, plaice and so on, in smaller tides and shallower marks - therefore no need to haul up a 1lb lead every time, therefore the action of the rod can be softer and more sporting on lighter fish. Have you ever set a clutch with a set of scales? Surprising how much force 30lb feels like when pulling against a fixed point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy135 Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Just now, JonC said: Have you ever set a clutch with a set of scales? Surprising how much force 30lb feels like when pulling against a fixed point. Not to take this off topic, but yes. The leverage of the rod makes the clutch setting feel stronger, even when it's set quite lightly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Andy135 said: Not to take this off topic, but yes. The leverage of the rod makes the clutch setting feel stronger, even when it's set quite lightly. Obviously 30lb of mass is considerably less in water. Fish have neutral buoyancy. Off topic further. GPSguru 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted November 24, 2020 Author Share Posted November 24, 2020 Ok so, what I’m trying to establish is what weight a rod can handle. Leo has an 8-12lb class rod but he wants to catch bigger fish (don’t we all). The rod is light enough for him though and I don’t want to over power him. Not sure what to go for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy135 Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 The line class of rod doesn't dictate what size of fish you can catch - it simply makes the fight swifter or more drawn out e.g. if you catch a big fish on a light line class rod, you'll have to play the fish in more gently as the light rod can't bully the fish in quickly. But a light rod can absolutely handle bigger fish than the line's breaking strain. You simply set the clutch on his reel to give line at less than the b.s. of the line, so it never experiences enough force to break. Then you net the fish so that the line (and rod) doesn't take the strain of lifting a large fish out of water. You need to think of the rod and reel as a system, rather than as individual items. A light rod, paired with a reel that has a properly set clutch can tame most fish. The question then becomes one of fish welfare as it's one thing to be sporting but another altogether to be under-gunned and have to exhaust the fish (and Leo!) before netting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy135 Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Of course, another option would be to use 20lb line on an 8-12lb rod, then increase the drag on his reel so that he can exert more force and bring the fish in quicker. Better for the fish but a harder fight for Leo. The rod action will feel floppier/less able to contribute to the fight but I guess that he's less concerned about the feel of the fight than about the capture of a bigger fish at this stage in his fishing career. Might be a "best of both worlds" trade-off to consider. 18 minutes ago, Saintly Fish said: The rod is light enough for him though and I don’t want to over power him. Do you mean it's mass is light enough for him to hold all day? If so, I'd be surprised if a rod of the next line class up would be significantly heavier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted November 24, 2020 Author Share Posted November 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Andy135 said: Do you mean it's mass is light enough for him to hold all day? Yes that’s what I meant. It’s light enough for him to comfortably hold. I just think it’s a bit too whippy for him if a larger fish was to come around. It’s perfect for small hounds etc because he feels like he’s in a battle. But if he wants to catch double figure snakes (he’s not satisfied with single figure examples) then I’m going to need to beef his tackle up. I just don’t want to go too big that he’s knackered just holding the rod. I suppose a 15-20 or there about a would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzook12 Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 I would imagine he could handle a 20lb class rod ok. Nothing really in them, just a bit stiffer. They can certainly handle what you're talking about, my lad landed a 25lb tope no bother on a 20lb class rod Saintly Fish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy135 Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 13 minutes ago, Saintly Fish said: Yes that’s what I meant. It’s light enough for him to comfortably hold. I just think it’s a bit too whippy for him if a larger fish was to come around. It’s perfect for small hounds etc because he feels like he’s in a battle. But if he wants to catch double figure snakes (he’s not satisfied with single figure examples) then I’m going to need to beef his tackle up. I just don’t want to go too big that he’s knackered just holding the rod. I suppose a 15-20 or there about a would do. Ok, then the next line class up would likely be fine. The weight of the reel would be more significant than the weight of the rod I'd have thought. Saintly Fish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 12lb class would seem like hard work if you are using leads larger than 12-14 oz. I hate using heavy leads which I guess is why I’m happy uptiding Saintly Fish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headlight Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 The obvious answer here is a Daiwa Kenzaki 20-30. The blanks are light to hold, a little under their rating IMO, have a forgiving tip but a bit of power further down the blank. Coupled to a decent reel it would be a nice set up for him and not under gunned or to heavy for him to hold. Andy135 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy135 Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Just now, headlight said: The obvious answer here is a Daiwa Kenzaki 20-30. The blanks are light to hold, a little under their rating IMO, have a forgiving tip but a bit of power further down the blank. Coupled to a decent reel it would be a nice set up for him and not under gunned or to heavy for him to hold. I think you're on the money there Ian. The fact that the Kenzaki's operate under their rating is the clincher. Their 20-30 is more like a 20-25. headlight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headlight Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Agreed. I have 3 x 20-30 rods, a Kenzaki, Grauvell and Ugly Stick. The Kenzaki is the lightest weight wise and not as powerful as the other 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headlight Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 5 minutes ago, Andy135 said: I think you're on the money there Ian. The fact that the Kenzaki's operate under their rating is the clincher. Their 20-30 is more like a 20-25. And definitely not up to handling big Blues in the Celtic Deeps eh Andy 😂 Andy135 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 23 minutes ago, headlight said: And definitely not up to handling big Blues in the Celtic Deeps eh Andy 😂 Would they be any good for accidentally catching tuna? jonnyswamp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy135 Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, JonC said: Would they be any good for accidentally catching tuna? Hey, we're not allowed to take threads off topic, remember??! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Sorry. I’ve been looking at various rods online today, other brands I’ve always used the main manufacturers. What do people have other than the usual Diawa,Abu,penn, shimano,Grey’s etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzook12 Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) The lad has rovex and shimano.... I use greys Edited November 24, 2020 by suzook12 JonC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 I was looking at tubertini rods. where do you start? All in gram classes and 18’ long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPSguru Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 In the past, I have always used Diawa Kenzaki braid rods ..............but .............. over the last 2 years I have been using Tronixpro 8.5 - 15lb Aphex rods. These rods are light and have a very sporting tip action, but also enough grunt in the butt to deal with big fish. A few of the local boats use them and all moaned at me when Tronix stopped making them earlier this year ............ the truth behind that is a brand name clash with the word Aphex ...........Tronixpro are having these rods made on the same blanks under a different name and will be available in the spring as an HTO product ............... For my heavy boat rods .......... 30-50 & 50-80 I use Shimano ......................and my new rods for next year's Tuna Shark fishing will be Shimano Tiagra ............ With boat rods it is more about personal preference and the feel of the rod ...................... as an example I find the Ugly stick to be more like pokers .................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Try a Shimano BX slim, very slim and lightweight. Also poky. Maybe a trip to tackle shop and waggle a few to get an idea 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted November 24, 2020 Author Share Posted November 24, 2020 39 minutes ago, Odyssey said: Try a Shimano BX slim, very slim and lightweight. Also poky. Maybe a trip to tackle shop and waggle a few to get an idea 🙂 Tackle shop round my way don’t stock anything other than the usual. And then they will only have one size. JonC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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