JonC Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Not good today, I finally mustered the courage to try to remove the injectors from my vw 100tdi. I’ve been having cold starting problems for a while with a lot of white smoke. All started off well, I ran the engine for about 30 minutes to get things warm then started the strip down. There’s a few bits in the way like the ecu housing and a few hoses. Nos 3,4 and 5 are out, offering little resistance just a wiggle with a 15mm flatty then a gentle pull out but 1 and 2 not so good. The cap headed hex screws that retains the crows foot have rounded off nicely so I’m going to have to go back with some new technique in hand. There’s no space around it to get one of the hammer on type of extractors on so I’m gonna have to find something that will go inside. I’ve done a tin of plus gas on them and I will put heat on them once I resume the battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPSguru Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 45 minutes ago, JonC said: Not good today, I finally mustered the courage to try to remove the injectors from my vw 100tdi. I’ve been having cold starting problems for a while with a lot of white smoke. All started off well, I ran the engine for about 30 minutes to get things warm then started the strip down. There’s a few bits in the way like the ecu housing and a few hoses. Nos 3,4 and 5 are out, offering little resistance just a wiggle with a 15mm flatty then a gentle pull out but 1 and 2 not so good. The cap headed hex screws that retains the crows foot have rounded off nicely so I’m going to have to go back with some new technique in hand. There’s no space around it to get one of the hammer on type of extractors on so I’m gonna have to find something that will go inside. I’ve done a tin of plus gas on them and I will put heat on them once I resume the battle. If you have got a small mig ( you only need 100A or so) to tack on a short bolt, then that is the easiest way, as it also applies direct heat to the stuck bolt. Pity I am not closer, would have been happy to help out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 5 minutes ago, GPSguru said: If you have got a small mig ( you only need 100A or so) to tack on a short bolt, then that is the easiest way, as it also applies direct heat to the stuck bolt. Pity I am not closer, would have been happy to help out. I was thinking about tacking a hex bit in there to get it out, but I’ve ordered an extractor bit so I’ll try that first. Might be useless but it seems less dramatic at this stage. I’ve had a look at a few YouTube videos to get ideas, one person suggested putting mole grips ( @Saintly Fish’s go to tool ) on as well to try to get the head to bite up a bit . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 43 minutes ago, JonC said: I was thinking about tacking a hex bit in there to get it out, but I’ve ordered an extractor bit so I’ll try that first. Might be useless but it seems less dramatic at this stage. I’ve had a look at a few YouTube videos to get ideas, one person suggested putting mole grips ( @Saintly Fish’s go to tool ) on as well to try to get the head to bite up a bit . Did you say an impact driver won't work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 6 minutes ago, Saintly Fish said: Did you say an impact driver won't work? Learned my lesson using impact guns on vehicle parts a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 47 minutes ago, JonC said: Learned my lesson using impact guns on vehicle parts a long time ago. No not a gun, one of the hammer drivers that actually use a hammer. Not a battery operated thingy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 One of these @JonC https://www.screwfix.com/p/hilka-pro-craft-impact-driver-set-13-pieces/7257R?kpid=7257R&cm_mmc=Google-_-Datafeed-_-Tools?kpid=KINASEKPID&cm_mmc=Google-_-TOKEN1-_-TOKEN2&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAzoeuBhDqARIsAMdH14HHtnthPa67jcfcoHjzsd2MpWVzvhgeYlvEjXGgTRFGRis9Eo1r0V8aAtDHEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPSguru Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 3 hours ago, JonC said: I was thinking about tacking a hex bit in there to get it out, but I’ve ordered an extractor bit so I’ll try that first. Might be useless but it seems less dramatic at this stage. I’ve had a look at a few YouTube videos to get ideas, one person suggested putting mole grips ( @Saintly Fish’s go to tool ) on as well to try to get the head to bite up a bit . Yes, tapered extractors might work. The bolts are already in need of replacement and if the extractors don't work they will just cut a larger hole in the bolt head, so nothing to lose really. Go for it 👍 TBF, the bolts are probably just tight rather than corroded, and you will still be left with the MIG option, which always works 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 22 minutes ago, GPSguru said: Yes, tapered extractors might work. The bolts are already in need of replacement and if the extractors don't work they will just cut a larger hole in the bolt head, so nothing to lose really. Go for it 👍 TBF, the bolts are probably just tight rather than corroded, and you will still be left with the MIG option, which always works 👍 That was my logic. Also I’m not the greatest welder out there, my coding has expired. I will put plenty of heat on them next time before I start and go at them with a punch. I was expecting the injectors themselves to be the problem so I wasn’t really prepared. There was no corrosion on the other bolts so it is just a matter of being tight and being in there for 18 years. The retaining bolts are stretch bolts I believe so should always be replaced as part of the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyswamp Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) Could you try tapping a torx bit in to the head, may be even shave a bit off the ends of the next size torx bit up The tapping may also loosen the bolt Edited February 6 by jonnyswamp Can't spell suzook12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Ignore me then 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 43 minutes ago, Saintly Fish said: Ignore me then 🙄 I haven’t ignored anyone you over sensitive little snowflake 🤣 I don’t think I have enough space to use one of those impact drivers, though I will consider it as an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 9 minutes ago, JonC said: I haven’t ignored anyone you over sensitive little snowflake 🤣 I don’t think I have enough space to use one of those impact drivers, though I will consider it as an option. Pfft, don't do me any favours!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPSguru Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, JonC said: That was my logic. Also I’m not the greatest welder out there, my coding has expired. I will put plenty of heat on them next time before I start and go at them with a punch. I was expecting the injectors themselves to be the problem so I wasn’t really prepared. There was no corrosion on the other bolts so it is just a matter of being tight and being in there for 18 years. The retaining bolts are stretch bolts I believe so should always be replaced as part of the job. Go careful on the heat as the injector will most likely have some plastic parts in it. Edited February 6 by GPSguru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 Ok, I’ll go one better. Regardless of how I get on , even if I have to take the engine out completely I will tell everyone that yor way worked. 👍🤣 GPSguru 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPSguru Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 6 hours ago, JonC said: Not good today, I finally mustered the courage to try to remove the injectors from my vw 100tdi. I’ve been having cold starting problems for a while with a lot of white smoke. All started off well, I ran the engine for about 30 minutes to get things warm then started the strip down. There’s a few bits in the way like the ecu housing and a few hoses. Nos 3,4 and 5 are out, offering little resistance just a wiggle with a 15mm flatty then a gentle pull out but 1 and 2 not so good. The cap headed hex screws that retains the crows foot have rounded off nicely so I’m going to have to go back with some new technique in hand. There’s no space around it to get one of the hammer on type of extractors on so I’m gonna have to find something that will go inside. I’ve done a tin of plus gas on them and I will put heat on them once I resume the battle. Are you going to swap out the glowplugs as well, or maybe you have already done that. If the difficulty in starting is down to the fuel system, then I would expect grey / black smoke when it starts from cold. Edit: Just sent a text to a garage mate, and hard starting with White smoke is quite common on VW diesels, and often down to the injectors issuing a piss poor spray pattern or the injector nozzle tip has hard deposits on it, thus making for a lean mixture. Also, the injector seals fail and suck air. He said to get them out and get them ultrasonically cleaned, but they don't always clean up well. JonC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 16 minutes ago, GPSguru said: Are you going to swap out the glowplugs as well, or maybe you have already done that. If the difficulty in starting is down to the fuel system, then I would expect grey / black smoke when it starts from cold. Edit: Just sent a text to a garage mate, and hard starting with White smoke is quite common on VW diesels, and often down to the injectors issuing a piss poor spray pattern or the injector nozzle tip has hard deposits on it, thus making for a lean mixture. Also, the injector seals fail and suck air. He said to get them out and get them ultrasonically cleaned, but they don't always clean up well. I replaced the glow plugs a couple of years ago, but I checked them last week by removing them and running a wire from the outer casing to the battery negative, each one lit up when I flicked the key to activate the plugs. Once the other two injectors are out I will take them to Colchester fuel injection services, a fairly local company for testing and refurbishing/ replacing as required. They did look fairly dirty but I don’t really know what they would be expected to look like. GPSguru 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPSguru Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 22 minutes ago, JonC said: I replaced the glow plugs a couple of years ago, but I checked them last week by removing them and running a wire from the outer casing to the battery negative, each one lit up when I flicked the key to activate the plugs. Once the other two injectors are out I will take them to Colchester fuel injection services, a fairly local company for testing and refurbishing/ replacing as required. They did look fairly dirty but I don’t really know what they would be expected to look like. Yes, they do look quite bad, but it is not how they look, it is the spray pattern and volume that is critical. Mate says' don't be surprised if you have to get one or two replacements. I hope they are cheaper than those in my Jeep, only an arm , leg and kidney at £971 each. On the other end of the scale, I replaced one in my last Volvo, and it was sub £75 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 Once I removed the return valves it was easy enough with a bolt extractor tool, irwin style This was obviously after i softened them up with an impact driver as recommended by @Saintly Fish. Thanks Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPSguru Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 36 minutes ago, JonC said: Once I removed the return valves it was easy enough with a bolt extractor tool, irwin style Excellent job. I guess you have taken them for ultrasonic cleaning and spray pattern testing 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 2 hours ago, GPSguru said: Excellent job. I guess you have taken them for ultrasonic cleaning and spray pattern testing 👍 Yeah I took them straight up to Colchester fuel injection services, should know on Monday what the verdict is. The guy did say they looked bad, reconed that they all would a need refurb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captin slows old outlaw Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 On 2/6/2024 at 8:13 PM, Saintly Fish said: Ignore me then 🙄 he normerly dose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captin slows old outlaw Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 good luck on the injecters, when i drove my montego (derv ) my ingetors were only cleaned every 2 years , the punp was playing up so i took the car to the bosh desiel firm and i ended up with a new pump. it went in for a servise and they gave the job to a traine, he did something rong and bits flew every where.so i had new inside of the pump and only paid for a servis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 1 hour ago, captin slows old outlaw said: good luck on the injecters, when i drove my montego (derv ) my ingetors were only cleaned every 2 years , the punp was playing up so i took the car to the bosh desiel firm and i ended up with a new pump. it went in for a servise and they gave the job to a traine, he did something rong and bits flew every where.so i had new inside of the pump and only paid for a servis Sounds like a good result Pete. Did well to even get there in a montego 🤣🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 16 minutes ago, JonC said: Sounds like a good result Pete. Did well to even get there in a montego 🤣🤣 Nothing wrong with a montego. I used to be the proud owner of a cream 1.6L. it was mint until the lap post jumped out at me, then it was mint but with a blue bonnet and bumper. Until the bonnet decided to make a break for it and took the windscreen out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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