Daughters first day on the marlin

[JDP]

My daughter took her first crew for the marlin season out today. It was a pretty quiet day in our area but the season looks like its going to be a good one given the amount of marlin that have been caught just to our north.

Sometimes she has crew that are only interested in catch and release and other days the customers want fish to take home. Both the striped marlin and mako's in this area are very common and both rate very high on the menu. This was an eight hour trip followed by two shorter trips later in the day and evening. She leaves home at 4.15am and returns at 10.15pm and has had just Xmas day off in the last month!!!

Just thought I would post something been as its been so quiet on here and I haven't had many opportunity's myself to get out.

 

[Saintly Fish]

I know you say that these fish are common in your area and taste really nice. I also understand that it’s your daughters job and she works real hard. However, I’m not keen on seeing photos of such majestic fish dead and being shown off. 
I don’t mind C&R pics, just don’t see the need for the rest. 

[JDP]

1 hour ago, Saintly Fish said:

I know you say that these fish are common in your area and taste really nice. I also understand that it’s your daughters job and she works real hard. However, I’m not keen on seeing photos of such majestic fish dead and being shown off. 
I don’t mind C&R pics, just don’t see the need for the rest. 

I did wonder how people might see it!!!

The thing is people have no problem killing a cod or whiting etc but simply the size of something makes them see it differently. That marlin would be around 4-5yrs old and are in such numbers that they are sold as pet food or turned into fertiliser because their value is so low.The little mako would be around 2yrs old and both reproduce offspring in good numbers. Its not uncommon to catch and release 10-20 striped marlin in a day where the small striped tuna (skipjacks) which are a favourite target of the marlin are virtually gone locally from overfishing to supply the canned tuna industry. Nobody would have an issue with a photo of a dead striped tuna or bonito yet these are now rare catches. Both the yellowfin and bluefin tuna have made good recovery after overfishing years ago by the commercial industry but the skipjacks are targeted so heavy before they reach us they are almost gone now.

The mako's are like dogfish are in the UK at times and one of the higher priced commercially targeted sharks.In the open mako comp held off Sydney each years the winning boats normally catch over 20 mako per boat in a day, most of which is on 10kg line class. In saying that very few are taken by the majority of anglers. Hounds are another shark which is common yet many of us don't keep them while some do.

When you start looking at the true picture of taking a common wild caught species and compare it with the negative effects of producing the likes of beef etc, then things get crazy on how people except one thing but not another. The damage done in this country (the world) from farmed animals is frightening. Pesticide and faeces leaking into waterways, then the ridiculous amounts of water to grow crops to feed and the animals. Then there's the machinery needed to produce and bring farmed animals to the dinner plate etc. 

When you look at any of the study's on the true cost of producing the meat we farm it makes far more sense taking a wild caught fish that will feed a fair few members of these peoples family's. I had some raw marlin with soya cause and wasabi this evening which was superb, tomorrow beer battered mako steaks.

[Dicky]

JDP i agree with virtually everything you just said and the taking of a fish on rod and line that has very little pressure on the stock should be encouraged , rather than buying commercially caught fish using destructive fishing methods. BUT pictures of big majestic fish like that with some blood showing will always tug on the heart strings of people, anglers and non-anglers. 

[Saintly Fish]

@JDP I’m not trying to put you off showing the fishing photos jon so please don’t think that. It’s nice to see different species. And what you say is correct. I would say the same though if somebody put a photo up of a whiting covered in blood too. People love fishing as we all do, fish get caught and why not. But, like Dicky says, at least wash the blood away and present the fish in a respectable way. 

[Saintly Fish]

By the way, the dorado is probably my top of the list fish to catch. The bulls look amazing with their big heads. 

[JonC]

If it’s being eaten and the stock  levels are sustainable then I see no problem . Not that it matters what I think anyway. 
which one in the photo is your daughter? 

[JDP]

The problem with any of these bigger fish is as soon as you wash away the blood more appears.

The dolphin fish are pretty much on a one way track to death each year. They move down the coast gaining a centimetre in length everyday on the warm southern currents (with Nemo!!), at the end of the summer season when the water cools they are left several thousand km south from the warm water they need to survive. 

Personally I much prefer targeting dolphin fish, especially when its casting for them with lighter tackle. 

Sharks get an awful amount of press from green groups and activists that don't have a clue what they are talking about in our local waters. Protecting large apex predators but not their common food source is a recipe for disaster, which we are already seeing with a sudden increase in shark attack fatalities. 

We are currently having great white sitings almost daily along our local beaches, for the first time in my life Im becoming nervous while in the water. Even species of smaller sharks have greatly risen in our area . These smaller sharks like whalers, hammerhead and mako etc are fish stealers, whether its off your rod and line or off your spear. Even though they are small compared to tigers and great whites, they can still do some damage if they mistakingly give you a bite. 

When we head north around the areas in this video it can be almost impossible to land a fish due to the number of sharks that follow us. In my area a local commercial shark fisherman has been loosing so many small sharks (150-200kg) to big sharks that he's stopped fishing at the moment (lookup trapan Bermagui and see a 100kg mako head eaten by something bigger).

Don't get me wrong I love seeing sharks from both in the water and from land or boat but strory's of them being endangered here is simply not true, so eating the odd one isn't going to effect the world to much. The problem comes from country's that have allowed foreign vessels into their waters that have wrecked the local fishing.

 

 

 

[Odyssey]

Sounds like seals over here....

Got cute eyes so townies love them.... absolute pain in the ass and increasing in numbers 

If its sustainable fill your boots of fish. As long as it’s not going to waste and not endangered then I have no issue 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Odyssey

[JDP]

1 hour ago, Odyssey said:

Sounds like seals over here....

Got cute eyes so townies love them.... absolute pain in the ass and increasing in numbers 

If its sustainable fill your boots of fish. As long as it’s not going to waste and not endangered then I have no issue 

We have a local seal colony of around 4000, also like sharks in terms of fish stealing.

[JDP]

I know there are those who don't like seeing dead fish that are kept to eat and the fact they bleed can't be helped but over here anti fishing green groups have far more against catch and release than catch to eat, which makes sense really. Also most green groups support spearfishing over any rod and line fishing as its seen as both controlled and sustainable and a traditional way of fishing that dates back thousands of years. I don't get the majestic saying myself as all fish are pretty majestic and wonderful to swim with, yet there's something about size that changes peoples views. A garfish is much like a tiny marlin and a mackerel is a small tuna, yet killing these or even using them as bait and burley doesn't get an eyebrow raised. 

When a large fish is kept here, they almost instantly go into an ice slurry to drop the core temp down to around 5'c. Even in my small boat I carry 20lt of ice and a 7ft chill bag which which can be used to chill down anything I bring onboard, yet in the UK very few people chill their catch which might be seen as seen as not caring for the catch by some of us. 

[suzook12]

6 hours ago, JDP said:

I know there are those who don't like seeing dead fish that are kept to eat and the fact they bleed can't be helped but over here anti fishing green groups have far more against catch and release than catch to eat, which makes sense really. Also most green groups support spearfishing over any rod and line fishing as its seen as both controlled and sustainable and a traditional way of fishing that dates back thousands of years. I don't get the majestic saying myself as all fish are pretty majestic and wonderful to swim with, yet there's something about size that changes peoples views. A garfish is much like a tiny marlin and a mackerel is a small tuna, yet killing these or even using them as bait and burley doesn't get an eyebrow raised. 

When a large fish is kept here, they almost instantly go into an ice slurry to drop the core temp down to around 5'c. Even in my small boat I carry 20lt of ice and a 7ft chill bag which which can be used to chill down anything I bring onboard, yet in the UK very few people chill their catch which might be seen as seen as not caring for the catch by some of us. 

Hi Jon, I think you must have been gone too long. You have forgotten we have a built in chiller on every boat, even beach anglers have it..... The weather!!! Lol.

It's an interesting point you make regards size changing peoples views, and a very valid one. This is really seen in the freshwater scene here, I have seen "anglers" throw back an 8lb bream just because it wasn't a carp..... I guess to some degree we are all guilty.

I remember fishing over in Ireland, we were feathering pollack on light gear. Good fun/sport until you looked behind the boat, seeing all those pollack floating away being picked off by gulls. At that point I wound in and stopped fishing. I don't agree with anything causing the death of fish for no other reason than "sport".

Times they are a changing tho, and it's good to see more and more anglers are more conservation minded and most fish getting returned alive.

Edited January 18, 2021 by suzook12

[Andy135]

7 hours ago, JDP said:

I know there are those who don't like seeing dead fish that are kept to eat and the fact they bleed can't be helped but over here anti fishing green groups have far more against catch and release than catch to eat, which makes sense really. Also most green groups support spearfishing over any rod and line fishing as its seen as both controlled and sustainable and a traditional way of fishing that dates back thousands of years. I don't get the majestic saying myself as all fish are pretty majestic and wonderful to swim with, yet there's something about size that changes peoples views. A garfish is much like a tiny marlin and a mackerel is a small tuna, yet killing these or even using them as bait and burley doesn't get an eyebrow raised. 

When a large fish is kept here, they almost instantly go into an ice slurry to drop the core temp down to around 5'c. Even in my small boat I carry 20lt of ice and a 7ft chill bag which which can be used to chill down anything I bring onboard, yet in the UK very few people chill their catch which might be seen as seen as not caring for the catch by some of us. 

I'm with you on this Jon - catch and eat is way more defensible than C&R, and as I think we both agreed on the dark side, spear-fishing comes out top of the crop in respect of selective, sustainable fishing methods.

Here's a potential middle-ground for photos... what if anglers took a photo of the fish, especially of the species and sizes of fish that your daughter guides for, in the water alongside the boat. It's a clear capture, so the angler has the kudos if that's their thing, and whatever happens next can remain off camera - either a kill and chill or a release. Seems to be the best of both worlds?

[Odyssey]

Alternatively you can post a picture of it filleted and on a plate 😍😍

Personally I think the images of old of a deck full of fish and anglers wading through it is more damaging. Sadly the world is full of snowflakes who think dont stop to realise that line caught fish is less damaging to the species and also the fact that it’s less likely to be wasted. 
 

If I were to go out and get 2-3 cod of 4lb each, I’d be lucky to get any myself.... word would get out and friends/family would soon pilfer them and I be left with just the peas as they’d steal my chips away too! So no chance of fish being wasted here....

[suzook12]

46 minutes ago, Andy135 said:

I'm with you on this Jon - catch and eat is way more defensible than C&R, and as I think we both agreed on the dark side, spear-fishing comes out top of the crop in respect of selective, sustainable fishing methods.

My only quibble on that would be killing fish for the sake of it...... Should you take every bass you catch, or is it more conservational to let the big girls go to continue breeding?

Here's a potential middle-ground for photos... what if anglers took a photo of the fish, especially of the species and sizes of fish that your daughter guides for, in the water alongside the boat. It's a clear capture, so the angler has the kudos if that's their thing, and whatever happens next can remain off camera - either a kill and chill or a release. Seems to be the best of both worlds?

Is there any need for a middle ground? Lets be honest here, we are all anglers and grown ups! The fish was killed for food, they bleed. It happens, it's not offensive, if it was, none of us would be anglers......

 

[Saintly Fish]

1 minute ago, suzook12 said:

 

Don’t forget steve, Andy’s not an angler. He’s a dog catcher. 

[Andy135]

@suzook12, the thinking about spear fishing is that you kill only what you need. To fish for the pot with hook and line you typically have to bring several fish to the boat before you find one that's in size and therefore eatable. With spear-fishing you don't pull the trigger unless it's big enough to eat. Also, letter-box sizing is possible too. The diver can choose to avoid the undersize fish and those that are the large breeding females, only targeting the plate-sized ones.

In respect of middle ground - this isn't really about what anglers think... it's about what non-anglers think. Finding a middle ground where anglers can still celebrate their catches without giving those of an easily-offended disposition (and Fisty) cause for concern can only be a good thing for the public relations of our sport.

[suzook12]

@Andy135 I get what you are saying regards spear fishing, but spear fishing is not applicable in many UK waters. What we do as rod and line anglers pales into insignificance compared to what trawled fish go through, and we return probably 99% alive!! When the commercials have cleaned up their act, and we are the ones being stared at owing to dodgy practices, then yeah, fair enough. But as more and more anglers are becoming conservation minded this is less of a concern anyway....

As for photo's, the fish is dead, it's been killed for the table..... Now, if it were being returned where no doubt it would be drawing every shark in a 10 mile radius due to bleeding, then yeah, different story..... The amount of commercially caught fish that are thrown back dead is far more concerning IMO. We can hardly complain about "snowflakes" by becoming one ourselves....

[Andy135]

Just now, suzook12 said:

@Andy135 I get what you are saying regards spear fishing, but spear fishing is not applicable in many UK waters. What we do as rod and line anglers pales into insignificance compared to what trawled fish go through, and we return probably 99% alive!! When the commercials have cleaned up their act, and we are the ones being stared at owing to dodgy practices, then yeah, fair enough. But as more and more anglers are becoming conservation minded this is less of a concern anyway....

As for photo's, the fish is dead, it's been killed for the table..... Now, if it were being returned where no doubt it would be drawing every shark in a 10 mile radius due to bleeding, then yeah, different story..... The amount of commercially caught fish that are thrown back dead is far more concerning IMO. We can hardly complain about "snowflakes" by becoming one ourselves....

Yeah, and I'm not saying we should become snowflakes, rather that we can help ourselves by being aware that not everyone on the internet is as practically-minded as us anglers are. Agree that angling impact is nothing compared to trawlers.

As an aside, I've seen spear-fishers at work in Devon and Dorset. Probably happens in Cornwall too, or anywhere in the UK that has clear enough water and isn't bloody freezing. If I weren't such an unfit fucker I'd seriously consider giving it a go myself as I'd love to see what goes on underwater to help me become a better angler.

[suzook12]

1 minute ago, Andy135 said:

Yeah, and I'm not saying we should become snowflakes, rather that we can help ourselves by being aware that not everyone on the internet is as practically-minded as us anglers are. Agree that angling impact is nothing compared to trawlers.

As an aside, I've seen spear-fishers at work in Devon and Dorset. Probably happens in Cornwall too, or anywhere in the UK that has clear enough water and isn't bloody freezing. If I weren't such an unfit fucker I'd seriously consider giving it a go myself as I'd love to see what goes on underwater to help me become a better angler.

Round this way you have a very long way to go to reach clear water, and theres no fish anyway......  🤣

 

I understand what you are saying, but I don't agree going in to hiding is the way forward. As with many things, education is key. If anyone challenges images such as this, then educate them that the fish is killed for food, fish bleed...... By trying to hide what we do, also backs up their theory that what we are doing is somehow wrong, otherwise, why would we cover it up?

Anyway, points made, you won't change my view and probably vice versa, although why any easily offended general public of the non fishing and or non boating variety would be looking at australian pics on this website........

[Andy135]

Just now, suzook12 said:

Round this way you have a very long way to go to reach clear water, and theres no fish anyway......  🤣

 

🤣 Ain't that the sad truth!

 

1 minute ago, suzook12 said:

I understand what you are saying, but I don't agree going in to hiding is the way forward. As with many things, education is key. If anyone challenges images such as this, then educate them that the fish is killed for food, fish bleed...... By trying to hide what we do, also backs up their theory that what we are doing is somehow wrong, otherwise, why would we cover it up?

Anyway, points made, you won't change my view and probably vice versa, although why any easily offended general public of the non fishing and or non boating variety would be looking at australian pics on this website........

You make a fair point - we shouldn't be made to feel like we need to "hide" our sport, which is entirely legal and contributes massively to local economies everywhere. All I'm suggesting is that we can avoid getting unjustified rocks thrown at us by the snowflake brigade with a little forethought. Not saying I like it, just that it's a possible middle ground for avoiding potential conflict.

Anyhoo, a good discussion with well-made points of view all round. 👍

[JDP]

Another couple of marlin today tagged and released, with a few dolphin fish kept. It isn't actually that common for people to keep the marlin but mako is far more commonly taken home. I have to say the marlin steak she bought home was some of the best fish Ive eaten for a while. Towards the end of the summer season we get the bigger billfish turn up, which are rarely taken by anyone even in the billfish tournament which attracts around 80-100+ boats. 

On the spearfishing front, I started spearing myself in the UK and there are still clubs running in the UK and very good venues there for the sport. The skill level is so much more than line fishing and not necessarily fitness as many good spearfishers here are overweight and elderly. It's a whole different level of mind control, relaxation and fighting the urge to breath. Fish need to be hunted in a way they don't think they are being hunted and the freediver needs to know and understand the target species behaviour and habits. Most of the better fish are found at 15m -20m or deeper, which means you don't have long once down there to get all parts together for a clean shot.

 

[Andy135]

23 hours ago, JDP said:

Another couple of marlin today tagged and released, with a few dolphin fish kept. It isn't actually that common for people to keep the marlin but mako is far more commonly taken home. I have to say the marlin steak she bought home was some of the best fish Ive eaten for a while. Towards the end of the summer season we get the bigger billfish turn up, which are rarely taken by anyone even in the billfish tournament which attracts around 80-100+ boats. 

On the spearfishing front, I started spearing myself in the UK and there are still clubs running in the UK and very good venues there for the sport. The skill level is so much more than line fishing and not necessarily fitness as many good spearfishers here are overweight and elderly. It's a whole different level of mind control, relaxation and fighting the urge to breath. Fish need to be hunted in a way they don't think they are being hunted and the freediver needs to know and understand the target species behaviour and habits. Most of the better fish are found at 15m -20m or deeper, which means you don't have long once down there to get all parts together for a clean shot.

 

What sort of kit would you recommend for a starter spear-fishing set up? I already have a 3mm wetsuit that just about still fits...

[JDP]

1 hour ago, Andy135 said:

What sort of kit would you recommend for a starter spear-fishing set up? I already have a 3mm wetsuit that just about still fits...

Are you talking guns or suit upgrade ?

Suits are best in two piece without any zips (commonly called farmer John style) and made from Yamamoto neoprene (which is actually made from limestone. These suits are extremely soft and stretchy and virtually eliminate any water getting inside them. This means you can use thinner suits in colder water and feel very comfortable in them. Being comfortable is all part of getting your mind into the relaxed state to increase breath holds, which also means less weight to assist the correct buoyancy. These suits normally need lubrication to put on, which I make up myself and keep in tomato sauce squeezy bottles. If you head down this path I can give you a good cheap formula for making lots of lube.

Long supple fins greatly improve the effort getting down with just a few long gentle kicks. Snorkel and masks with soft silicone mouth pieces and mask surrounds all help to make you feel comfortable and relaxed. if you don't feel totally comfortable your dives will be short and messy and scare fish away. The snorkel is simply for breathing at the surface, when you go under spit the snorkel out so it has no air inside it as even a couple of bubbles from it can spoke a fish as you are lining a shot.

There are heaps of guns that would suit you but something in the 90cm is a good all round size. As a general rule longer guns are used in clean water where you need more range or target bigger fish. Guns with a rail that the spear shaft runs along are considered most accurate, these can be found in wood, plastic, aluminium and carbon. We have several different makes but have to admit the European Riffe guns are what we tend to like the most. Most Riffe guns are wooden, which obviously makes them heavier than carbon etc but the weight gives several advantages for hunting. Firstly even though they are heavier they are also well balanced to hold underwater and the weight reduces recoil (kick) and eakesthe gun quieter to shoot. Carbon, aluminium etc can be quicker to move around on fast fish but I would still opt for the heavier Riffe, in saying that I do have a small carbon cressi gun that is fantastic but part of that is because Ive set it up with light rubbers.

Most guns are set up with heavy powerful bands which I find a little hard to load so I drop the bands down to around 14.5mm and shorter than the originals the guns come with. These shorter thinner bands give a longer more progressive pull on the spear giving a smoother shot. When you start looking into the many different makes of spear rubbers you soon realise there is as much into choosing these as there is in lines for rod and line fishing.

Target practice is very important, so start off in shallow water with a few targets to get your eye tuned into the gun. Shoot from under the target, straight on and above over and over until you become confident shooting and loading in the water. Always unload the gun when not in the water, we tend to unload by pulling the rubbers back out of the ridges on the spear shaft and not shooting it off into the water. Old plastic bottles with a weight attached on a string and a small amount of air in them will keep them up off the bottom to shoot at.

Try shoot fish from an angle where rocks aren't behind the fish or the shaft can get bent. Make sure the spear flopper opens correctly and stays open or fish fish will pull off the shaft (look on YouTube at Rob Allen spear flopper tuning and shaft straightening ). 

The store in Spain has a fair amount of gear on offer https://www.scubastore.com/scuba-diving?info=cW5NL2NQM1J0a0hlTmswOHpXa0VGbVRnSTBaM29ZVXJHNWE3Z1BNT2JKZFpjK1U1ZU5aVWFTNHduVXZJVXNiSGxvS0Qyci9BWCthbWc2SmJEcjc4eVFtQ082YnFxZE9yeHllMytnYnFxUm9VM3RZWkpuRDlsRzlSSTlCOThPQ1RVcUIyL0NGMHJjQU9TREFxVkR5Tmp3PT0=

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by JDP

[Andy135]

Thanks Jon, that's very helpful.

Do you guys use weight belts over there? I've seen a spear-fisher here using a belt, presumably to get down and stay down. Always wondered how he got back up again though.