Mackerel officially going downhill.... sadly

[thejollysinker]

I read this today from a feed on a FB group today and it was inevitable really, just sad to see that there is so much greed to rape the seas and not put anything back, just take, take , take....

https://www.mcsuk.org/news/mackerel-no-longer-a-sustainable-choice/?fbclid=IwAR3v7BeBcAAcZHzvyHjoiG-ozCRhXM2EWbPcYeUdhkg_mlUbAopAsaUFO1w (I know, the picture they use is one of Scad)

Are we any better? begs the question I suppose....

there must be a way where certain species can be bred to a size (like the lobsters in Padstow) to help regenerate stocks more quickly or, does something like that have a detrimental effect on the whole ecosystem?

It's a difficult one that's for sure.

 

 

[Saintly Fish]

Certainly is a sad state of affairs. I blame @mike farrants, he catches more Mack's than the rest of the world combined and boasts about it regularly. 

[GPSguru]

16 minutes ago, thejollysinker said:

I read this today from a feed on a FB group today and it was inevitable really, just sad to see that there is so much greed to rape the seas and not put anything back, just take, take , take....

https://www.mcsuk.org/news/mackerel-no-longer-a-sustainable-choice/?fbclid=IwAR3v7BeBcAAcZHzvyHjoiG-ozCRhXM2EWbPcYeUdhkg_mlUbAopAsaUFO1w (I know, the picture they use is one of Scad)

Are we any better? begs the question I suppose....

there must be a way where certain species can be bred to a size (like the lobsters in Padstow) to help regenerate stocks more quickly or, does something like that have a detrimental effect on the whole ecosystem?

It's a difficult one that's for sure.

 

 

TBF we want measured scientific evidence, not the opinion of some headline grabbing tart.

The last compelling scientific evidence I read, it was concluded that the dense shoals of mack were moving more toward Iceland because of changes in the water temp (global warming ?), meant that they were following the changes in their food source.

[thejollysinker]

is that what the Marine Conservation Society is then, a headline grabbing tart?

I looked them up and thought that since they've been going since 1983 they must have something going for them.... maybe I'm wrong 🤷‍♂️

I understand that Mackerel have been prevalent in the more Northern fisheries, including Iceland from early this century but that's over 20 years.

As for following their food source, there's plenty of that round here nearly all year round yet the Mackerel aren't in abundance. I've noticed a decline in Mackerel numbers over the years (of which there are many) and I can remember catching loads of good sized ones with relative ease (almost guaranteed) from Chesil in years gone by. It isn't the same now so something has changed.

IMO you just can't keep hammering a species to death because they are seemingly abundant and I for one think that Mackerel are going the same way the Herring shoals did many moons ago... they used to be one of the most prolific species in our waters and when you read that the most successful year yielded 12 million tonnes of fish one has to ask if that really is sustainable....?

[GPSguru]

2 hours ago, thejollysinker said:

is that what the Marine Conservation Society is then, a headline grabbing tart?

I looked them up and thought that since they've been going since 1983 they must have something going for them.... maybe I'm wrong 🤷‍♂️

I understand that Mackerel have been prevalent in the more Northern fisheries, including Iceland from early this century but that's over 20 years.

As for following their food source, there's plenty of that round here nearly all year round yet the Mackerel aren't in abundance. I've noticed a decline in Mackerel numbers over the years (of which there are many) and I can remember catching loads of good sized ones with relative ease (almost guaranteed) from Chesil in years gone by. It isn't the same now so something has changed.

IMO you just can't keep hammering a species to death because they are seemingly abundant and I for one think that Mackerel are going the same way the Herring shoals did many moons ago... they used to be one of the most prolific species in our waters and when you read that the most successful year yielded 12 million tonnes of fish one has to ask if that really is sustainable....?

The article I read was about how the mack food, which eats a particular type of zoo plankton was taking a different route north, as due to an average increase in sea temp, the prevailing currents had changed.

However, I seem to catch enough, got about 200 in the bait freezer, but yes, the shoals seem smaller than 10 yrs ago, and the season has changed a little, but TBH we can catch mack here all year round, if not sometimes a little difficult to find during the depths of winter, and early spring.

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by GPSguru

[suzook12]

!2 Million tonnes!!!

 My Dad used to tell me he would go maccy bashing off hunstanton pier which kinda gives an idea of how long ago.....

Haven't seen a mac outside of a fishmongers in this area since god knows when.... When we go after tope, the tope are easier to catch than the mackerel bait!! Herring we have aplenty as they can't even give it away nowadays.

They also make out cod fishing is sustainable!! I beg to differ!!

Fish migrating to Iceland, or Iceland still has fish stocks as they banned commercial fishing for many years now operate a truly sustainable fishing model?

[GPSguru]

2 hours ago, thejollysinker said:

is that what the Marine Conservation Society is then, a headline grabbing tart?

I looked them up and thought that since they've been going since 1983 they must have something going for them.... maybe I'm wrong 🤷‍♂️

I understand that Mackerel have been prevalent in the more Northern fisheries, including Iceland from early this century but that's over 20 years.

As for following their food source, there's plenty of that round here nearly all year round yet the Mackerel aren't in abundance. I've noticed a decline in Mackerel numbers over the years (of which there are many) and I can remember catching loads of good sized ones with relative ease (almost guaranteed) from Chesil in years gone by. It isn't the same now so something has changed.

IMO you just can't keep hammering a species to death because they are seemingly abundant and I for one think that Mackerel are going the same way the Herring shoals did many moons ago... they used to be one of the most prolific species in our waters and when you read that the most successful year yielded 12 million tonnes of fish one has to ask if that really is sustainable....?

 

I am not saying the article wrong, however, in the past I have seen way too many 'alarmist' articles by marine conservationists, remember the thing they did about Cod in the North sea a few years ago 🙄

All I am saying is, to help me see the bigger picture, I want to see a balanced view point with irrefutable scientific data.

We know that the inhabitants in our seas here are changing, like the increase in BFT, species being caught out of season etc, most of the data I have seen has relates it to the changing food source for them, and they chase the food source.

I will say that we seem to be in a period of more Bass and better quality Bass, however, is that entirely due to the Bass regulations (flouted by many commercials) or is it just a natural phenomenon and part of the wider fish cycle ?

Edited April 5, 2023 by GPSguru

[JDP]

A couple of years back we sent the worlds second largest super trawler from here which its target was mackerel. From here it headed to British waters, where it still regularly fishes under its new name. Mackerel here seem to be in such large schools that we will often spend hours offshore travelling over a constant sounder of fish showing from the bottom at 140m to just bellow the surface or spring across the surface. The game fish such as marlin, tuna and sharks are in good numbers, both juveniles and bigger fish, all of which would of been allowable catch as bycatch if the vessel had stayed here.

When the vessel was leaving here heading to British waters the general conception on another mostly UK fishing site was the UK mackerel stock was so large the super trawler would have no threat. Personally I couldn't believe there were so many dumb people believing that. Also its hard to believe the angling community simply sat back and did nothing in regards to trying to stop it. 

[Malc]

12 hours ago, thejollysinker said:

...does something like that have a detrimental effect on the whole ecosystem?

Yes.

I read an academic paper on the result of the collapse of the NS herring stock in the 60-70's. Shortly after the collapse the gaddid (cod, haddock, whiting, pollock etc.) catches went bonkers and the reason for this was mature herring (and mackerel) eat gaddid fry amongst others. However shortly after gaddid stocks plummeted because there weren't many immature herring to prey on. 

Yes it's much more complicated than that but thankfully the herring stocks are improving and we are seeing lots of micro codling and whiting so hopefully the balance is being restored. 

[Andy135]

8 hours ago, JDP said:

A couple of years back we sent the worlds second largest super trawler from here which its target was mackerel. From here it headed to British waters, where it still regularly fishes under its new name. Mackerel here seem to be in such large schools that we will often spend hours offshore travelling over a constant sounder of fish showing from the bottom at 140m to just bellow the surface or spring across the surface. The game fish such as marlin, tuna and sharks are in good numbers, both juveniles and bigger fish, all of which would of been allowable catch as bycatch if the vessel had stayed here.

When the vessel was leaving here heading to British waters the general conception on another mostly UK fishing site was the UK mackerel stock was so large the super trawler would have no threat. Personally I couldn't believe there were so many dumb people believing that. Also its hard to believe the angling community simply sat back and did nothing in regards to trying to stop it. 

The Margiris if I remember correctly. And yes, typical British apathy and/or keyboard warriorism abounded when it was here. Lots of anglers got hot under the collar about it but apparently it was entitled to fish here and had quota to do so.... which tells me the whole system is wrong. There was even talk of taking back control of our waters after Brexit [puts on tin hat and hides from @JonC in case of a dressing down for straying into politics] but according to VesselFinder she was recently working just north of Scotland.

https://www.vesselfinder.com/vessels/details/8301187#:~:text=The current position of MARGIRIS,4 days ago by AIS.

 

[suzook12]

10 minutes ago, Andy135 said:

The Margiris if I remember correctly. And yes, typical British apathy and/or keyboard warriorism abounded when it was here. Lots of anglers got hot under the collar about it but apparently it was entitled to fish here and had quota to do so.... which tells me the whole system is wrong. There was even talk of taking back control of our waters after Brexit [puts on tin hat and hides from @JonC in case of a dressing down for straying into politics] but according to VesselFinder she was recently working just north of Scotland.

https://www.vesselfinder.com/vessels/details/8301187#:~:text=The current position of MARGIRIS,4 days ago by AIS.

 

Yes, you are right, the system is totally wrong and always has been,,,, As for taking back control, wasn't that supposed to happen over 5 years or so as the EU boats had paid quotas? Then came covid and the witch hunts

Either way out, our government has never sided with sustainability and we are reaping the rewards. Even our own boats are/were selling abroad, so as a nation, we do not need to catch as much as we do. Going back to how we were in as much as small boats, small local quotas and sold into the home market only is somewhere along the lines of where we should be heading IMO. Those that still have a licence to fish our waters should be forced to weigh in in our fish markets as well....

[Malc]

Mackerel off Iceland etc is interesting too, along with changing catches up here. Pout are now common place, haddock are getting caught offshore and from the beaches, grey Gurnard, spotted ray and doggies getting more common off the Tyne and Wear coast. A few years ago there was a sudden increase in octopus numbers off the east coast of Scotland and I caught 3 small ones one after another on one drift and on moving offshore a few hundred yards was immediately into another. How does that work for the crab and lobster industry?

Perhaps a decline in Mackerel off some southern areas will allow some other species a toe hold? Will our  children or grandchildren be fishing for corvina or other exotic species?

[Andy135]

12 minutes ago, Malc said:

Perhaps a decline in Mackerel off some southern areas will allow some other species a toe hold? Will our  children or grandchildren be fishing for corvina or other exotic species?

We're already seeing that shift in species in the south - the BFT are migrating northwards from the Bay of Biscay, perhaps following the mackerel north, and perhaps other species will follow.

[GPSguru]

Are the mack in yet ? 🙄🤣🤣🤣👍👍

[thejollysinker]

25 minutes ago, Malc said:

Doggies getting more common ….

Perhaps a decline in Mackerel off some southern areas will allow some other species a toe hold? Will our  children or grandchildren be fishing for corvina or other exotic species?

let @Andy135 know, he’ll be there in a shot 🤣

if the smaller trawlers from Brixham have a say in other species increasing…. Well, we know where that’s going, into their bloody nets 😕

[Andy135]

1 minute ago, thejollysinker said:

let @Andy135 know, he’ll be there in a shot 🤣

if the smaller trawlers from Brixham have a say in other species increasing…. Well, we know where that’s going, into their bloody nets 😕

Got any numbers for those dogfish marks? 😉🤣

[thejollysinker]

8 minutes ago, Andy135 said:

Got any numbers for those dogfish marks? 😉🤣

Any time you fancy a dogfest just come out with me…. It’s barking out there 🤣🤣🤣

[GPSguru]

There is not a whole lot in the fishing news about it.

A change from sustainable to non-sustainable will really only affect the commercials, as quota's will be reduced and MLS could be increased.

However, it doesn't mean there are no fish in the sea !

From a personal perspective, I think it is good for the recreational anglers when this sort of stuff happens, as changes to quota's etc will take the pressure off fish stocks.

@thejollysinker, I expect our local rag will be full of blame, giving the Eastern Europeans and the look-a-likes a hard time for catching sackfuls of undersize mack 🤣

If the MLS is increased it will not affect us from using undersize fish as bait, or taking undersize fish for making into bait, which is a loop hole that has been in the fisheries act for years.

https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/mackerel-sustainable-fish-stocks-uk-atlantic-a8805331.html

https://oceans-and-fisheries.ec.europa.eu/news/sustainable-fisheries-eu-reaches-agreement-north-east-atlantic-coastal-states-well-uk-and-norway-2022-12-15_en

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-reaches-agreement-on-key-fish-stocks-for-2023

[suzook12]

1 hour ago, GPSguru said:

There is not a whole lot in the fishing news about it.

A change from sustainable to non-sustainable will really only affect the commercials, as quota's will be reduced and MLS could be increased.

However, it doesn't mean there are no fish in the sea !

From a personal perspective, I think it is good for the recreational anglers when this sort of stuff happens, as changes to quota's etc will take the pressure off fish stocks.

@thejollysinker, I expect our local rag will be full of blame, giving the Eastern Europeans and the look-a-likes a hard time for catching sackfuls of undersize mack 🤣

If the MLS is increased it will not affect us from using undersize fish as bait, or taking undersize fish for making into bait, which is a loop hole that has been in the fisheries act for years.

https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/mackerel-sustainable-fish-stocks-uk-atlantic-a8805331.html

https://oceans-and-fisheries.ec.europa.eu/news/sustainable-fisheries-eu-reaches-agreement-north-east-atlantic-coastal-states-well-uk-and-norway-2022-12-15_en

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-reaches-agreement-on-key-fish-stocks-for-2023

Well the second item is all about more fishing for the EU- as well as secure the fishing opportunities for EU vessels.-The EU has also reached an agreement with the United Kingdom and Norway on the joint trilateral management of six key stocks in the North Sea: cod, haddock, saithe, whiting, plaice and herring. Cumulatively, the agreement provides over 300,000 tonnes of fishing opportunities for EU fleets for these stocks in 2023.- Not exactly about sustainability

The bottom one-

The catch levels agreed for North Sea stocks for 2023 (compared to 2022) are:

• Cod +63%
• Haddock +30%
• Herring -7.3%
• Plaice +5.8%
• Saithe +18.7%
• Whiting +30%
• again, hardly about sustainability.....

The independant article confirms that none of the governments are particularly bothered about sustainability.....

[Malc]

1 hour ago, Andy135 said:

Got any numbers for those dogfish marks? 😉🤣

Not the numbers but try here 

👍🏻🎣

[GPSguru]

9 hours ago, Andy135 said:

Got any numbers for those dogfish marks? 😉🤣

Around here, up to about a mile out, pretty much every medium sized fish bait on the bottom will produce a dog 🙄

[mike farrants]

On 4/5/2023 at 7:29 PM, Saintly Fish said:

Certainly is a sad state of affairs. I blame @mike farrants, he catches more Mack's than the rest of the world combined and boasts about it regularly. 

Got fifty plus in the freezer if they want them back!

[thejollysinker]

25 minutes ago, mike farrants said:

Got fifty plus in the freezer if they want them back!

you can't just pop them back in, they need to acclimatise from such a cold temperature so be careful if you let them go 😉🤣

[Odyssey]

Plenty of pollack about…. Or there were until @Josh went fishing and cleared out the channel 🤣🤣🤣