Saintly Fish Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Ok right. So, I went down to the boat Friday and got the prop nut off. It helps to have a correctly sized open face spanner for starters. And it was a CCW thread. So today, me and my little helper went back down armed with a blow lamp, 12” of iron bar and a lump hammer. After 15-20 mins the prop was off. Then take it home and give it a clean up. There is still a job that needs doing however, and this is where you lot hopefully come into play again. The rope cutter is blunt and needs replacing. But I can see how to get it off. It is a one piece unit that can only slide off the shaft. I’ve located and undone the locking grub screw, but there is a flat faced piece of metal on the shaft which prevents the cutter sliding down and off. The flat edge is the prop locator. Any ideas ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy135 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Remove the woodruff key (the flat edge prop locator). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 11 minutes ago, Andy135 said: Remove the woodruff key (the flat edge prop locator). Oh is that what it’s called. Does it just pop out then(with persuasion)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy135 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 5 minutes ago, Saintly Fish said: Oh is that what it’s called. Does it just pop out then(with persuasion)? Yes. Keep hold of it when it comes out as you'll need to put it back in before installing your prop again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy135 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_(engineering)#Woodruff_keys Has some text about key removal too. Saintly Fish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy135 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 The semi-circular profile should mean that a tap with a hammer on one end of the key will cause it to rotate in the key way; as the tapped end sinks, the other end will be pushed upwards and out of the key way. Keep tapping it out gently until it's free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Give it a good dose of WD and give it 24hrs. As Any said, try tapping it downwards at the inboard end with a small nail punch. Geoff. Saintly Fish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzook12 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Tap it out with a screwdriver and hammer, give it a clean with a light abrasive and its ready to refit. What you have looks more like key steel than a worrdruff key, so it won't rock out, it will need a hammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 You are correct Steve - it may not be a woodruff key, it is not possible to see the outboard end and it does look rather too long for a WR key. even if it is a straight key I would still recommend the WD treatment that I referred to earlier, and tap (with a flat ended nail punch fairly gently all along the key length to try to loosen it, do not go straight in with heavy blows and the key should come out without damage. It may take a couple of tries over 2 or 3 days and plenty of WD application. Gentle heat after the first soaking may also help. Geoff.☺️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzook12 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 10 minutes ago, Geoff said: You are correct Steve - it may not be a woodruff key, it is not possible to see the outboard end and it does look rather too long for a WR key. even if it is a straight key I would still recommend the WD treatment that I referred to earlier, and tap (with a flat ended nail punch fairly gently all along the key length to try to loosen it, do not go straight in with heavy blows and the key should come out without damage. It may take a couple of tries over 2 or 3 days and plenty of WD application. Gentle heat after the first soaking may also help. Geoff.☺️ Guess thats where we disagree Geoff, we're talking a square profile bit of steel in a slot, no need to pussy about with it, get in and hit it, 9 times out of 10 it will come first time, and marks can be filed off easily and quickly. Key steel can be purchased from just about any industrial shop for not much. Take a look on ebay, its not worth spending hours to get it out intact......... It's also quite hard so pretty difficult to mark it unless its proper stuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 5 minutes ago, suzook12 said: Guess thats where we disagree Geoff, we're talking a square profile bit of steel in a slot, no need to pussy about with it, get in and hit it, 9 times out of 10 it will come first time, and marks can be filed off easily and quickly. Key steel can be purchased from just about any industrial shop for not much. Take a look on ebay, its not worth spending hours to get it out intact......... It's also quite hard so pretty difficult to mark it unless its proper stuck Do you just want him to go at it with a hammer? The rest of us have spent years trying to get him to put the hammer away, you’re ruining years of hard work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Not really disagreeing Steve, I just like to sneak upon these things before getting heavy handed. Geoff.☺️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPSguru Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 4 hours ago, Saintly Fish said: Ok right. So, I went down to the boat Friday and got the prop nut off. It helps to have a correctly sized open face spanner for starters. And it was a CCW thread. So today, me and my little helper went back down armed with a blow lamp, 12” of iron bar and a lump hammer. After 15-20 mins the prop was off. Then take it home and give it a clean up. There is still a job that needs doing however, and this is where you lot hopefully come into play again. The rope cutter is blunt and needs replacing. But I can see how to get it off. It is a one piece unit that can only slide off the shaft. I’ve located and undone the locking grub screw, but there is a flat faced piece of metal on the shaft which prevents the cutter sliding down and off. The flat edge is the prop locator. Any ideas ?? Yes, tap out the woodruff key carefully. Not all woodruff keys are half moon shaped, it depends whether the shaft key slot was milled or broached, some keys are long and square, especially where a lot of strength is called for. They have a habit of flying out suddenly, but it is not a problem if you lose it as they are standard sizes. Also check the woodruff key for wear ! suzook12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzook12 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 36 minutes ago, JonC said: Do you just want him to go at it with a hammer? The rest of us have spent years trying to get him to put the hammer away, you’re ruining years of hard work. A hammer should be used when its the correct tool for the job..... 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzook12 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 31 minutes ago, GPSguru said: Yes, tap out the woodruff key carefully. Not all woodruff keys are half moon shaped, it depends whether the shaft key slot was milled or broached, some keys are long and square, especially where a lot of strength is called for. They have a habit of flying out suddenly, but it is not a problem if you lose it as they are standard sizes. Also check the woodruff key for wear ! All woodruff keys are half mood shape, thats what makes them a woodruff key as opposed to a parallel key which it looks like he has......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPSguru Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Just now, suzook12 said: All woodruff keys are half mood shape, thats what makes them a woodruff key as opposed to a parallel key which it looks like he has......... Yes, I know, but they are a bit like vacuum cleaners that are all called Hoovers ! .......... .🤣 .......... all keys tend to be called woodruff keys ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzook12 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 7 minutes ago, GPSguru said: Yes, I know, but they are a bit like vacuum cleaners that are all called Hoovers ! .......... .🤣 .......... all keys tend to be called woodruff keys ! Depends on background as well I suppose, working in engineering people know the difference........ And would be crucified for getting it wrong lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPSguru Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, suzook12 said: Depends on background as well I suppose, working in engineering people know the difference........ And would be crucified for getting it wrong lol Agreed, although both you and I know the difference, most folk wouldn't know what a parallel key is and why it was there, say the word 'woodruff key' and most will understand. My eyesight is not good enough tonight to see Neil's picture clearly ........... BTW, I have had a lot of issues with worn keys in the past ........ annoying expensive sounding knocks on diesels, and wandering cam timing on petrols ! Edited January 31, 2021 by GPSguru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 The “key” does not have a curved edge to it. It has a long flat profile around 3” in length. I will go down tomorrow and have a play. Geoff gentle at first, then finishing with Steve strength if needed. Thanks again for your inputs. Geoff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 If that key is 3" long it is definitely NOT a woodruff. If it did have a curved edge, you would not see the curve when the key is still in position - possibly a tiny bit of curve visible at each end, that Is a parallel key. Geoff. Andy135 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Geoff said: If that key is 3" long it is definitely NOT a woodruff. If it did have a curved edge, you would not see the curve when the key is still in position - possibly a tiny bit of curve visible at each end, that Is a parallel key. Geoff. Thanks Geoff. It runs the whole width of the prop. Then the prop groove fits over it. Geoff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPSguru Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Saintly Fish said: The “key” does not have a curved edge to it. It has a long flat profile around 3” in length. I will go down tomorrow and have a play. Geoff gentle at first, then finishing with Steve strength if needed. Thanks again for your inputs. Give the end of the parallel key a sharp tap with a pin punch, if you see any movement at all, then pry it out with a screwdriver ........... you might need to tap the end 'upwards' with the pin punch. Edited January 31, 2021 by GPSguru Geoff and suzook12 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzook12 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 59 minutes ago, GPSguru said: Give the end of the parallel key a sharp tap with a pin punch, if you see any movement at all, then pry it out with a screwdriver ........... you might need to tap the end 'upwards' with the pin punch. I use a screwdriver but yeah, sometimmes you have enough slot to get the screwdriver wedged under to prize it out. But as GPS has just mentioned about wear, if its showing any sign of havibg been moviving, replace it, it's too cheap not to.... Neil, don't be a pansy with it, all you're doing is wasting your own time..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captin slows old outlaw Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 what are you saying that s/f is unsafe with a hammer, i dont belive you. well have fun with it, its nice to see all that addvice being frelly given Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPSguru Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 21 hours ago, Saintly Fish said: Thanks Geoff. It runs the whole width of the prop. Then the prop groove fits over it. Well ? ............ did you get it out OK ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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