Salt build up auxiliary motor

[thejollysinker]

has anyone ever had to flush a motor that is salted up quite badly?

my 8hp yam is not great and trying to find info about flushing with agents like 'salt away' is proving slightly difficult as in;

What 'is' the best product, how much do you need, what ratio for mix etc and how long to run the motor for to give it a damn good clean....?

any advice on the subject would be appreciated so I can get on with it 🙂

Edited to show the extent of the build up with a picture of the stat.

Edited April 12, 2023 by thejollysinker

[thejollysinker]

4 minutes ago, JonC said:

For cleaning raw water systems on inboard diesels Rydlime is the best agent. I would refer to your periodic table though before using it as it can kill some alloys. A friend of ours BK once told someone to put all the parts in a bat and it dissolved half of the parts 🤣

I think I'll give that a miss. I would still like a motor that works by the end of the process 😅

 

[Andy135]

If I remember correctly, our resident antipodean @JDP may be able to offer a point of view. Salt flushing fluids seem to be used more extensively down under than they do up here.

[thejollysinker]

51 minutes ago, Andy135 said:

If I remember correctly, our resident antipodean @JDP may be able to offer a point of view. Salt flushing fluids seem to be used more extensively down under than they do up here.

Would be interesting to hear how they do it upside down 🤣

[daio web]

i have heard of them running them in a drum with calgon   dishwasher tabs   might be worth a try budd

[thejollysinker]

7 minutes ago, daio web said:

i have heard of them running them in a drum with calgon   dishwasher tabs   might be worth a try budd

Cheers mate, tbh I tried some calgon spray on the stat and it hardly touched it 🤷‍♂️

[Odyssey]

Looks like a new stat…. 
 

Run it in a tank of water with salt away, instructions on bottle and keep flushing it 

[GPSguru]

 

6 hours ago, thejollysinker said:

What 'is' the best product, how much do you need, what ratio for mix etc and how long to run the motor for to give it a damn good clean....?

any advice on the subject would be appreciated so I can get on with it 🙂

Salt away definitely works, but it used to be not easy or quick to get, but I see that screwfix and toolstation sell it now, and I assume it is the same stuff.

White vinegar also definitely works, IIRC something like a cup full to a gallon of water. The 5% acetic acid of the vinegar assists the water in breaking down the salt.

Salt is a stable inorganic compound but does dissolve in vinegar which is an organic compound, but there is no direct chemical reaction, just the grateful assistance of the acetic acid.

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by GPSguru

[JDP]

Salt-away and the numerous other products similar on the market are extremely popular here. If that thermostat looks that way you can bet your entire cooling system on the engine will be much the same, possibly the same on your main engine if you don't regularly flush out the cooling system. I would also be checking a data sheet to see exactly how many anodes are on the engines and checking everyone of them. 

There are even permanent mounted flush systems for Diesel engines such as the ones found here (specially for @JonC  https://www.salt-attack.com.au/products/marine-boat-motors?keyword_k=&gclid=CjwKCAjwrdmhBhBBEiwA4Hx5gxJH-PpWNekdJ5pk0u1sQZp6yKzx_x_yCr8T78IcHPOIcLtDz_5P1hoCTxsQAvD_BwE

If you can't get your hands on such products you could try cleaning vinegar, which is slightly more acidic than normal vinegar. Vinegar will quickly break down the salt but if your anodes have dissolved the motor could be in a bit of trouble. 

 

And here's a picture specially for @JonC of some glowing fungus I took locally.

[Andy135]

58 minutes ago, JonC said:

Thanks @JDP that fungus looks interesting, in fact far more so than yourself 🤣

It reminds me of a dog I saw once.

[captin slows old outlaw]

1 hour ago, JonC said:

Thanks @JDP that fungus looks interesting, in fact far more so than yourself 🤣

are you shore that is not a dig at you jon /??? 

[captin slows old outlaw]

 i would have thought that  s/f would be the one to ask as he descales boilers

[JDP]

41 minutes ago, captin slows old outlaw said:

 i would have thought that  s/f would be the one to ask as he descales boilers

He's simply jealous again that Im such a fun-guy 🙃

[Andy135]

37 minutes ago, JDP said:

He's simply jealous again that Im such a fun-guy 🙃

[thejollysinker]

13 hours ago, JDP said:

Salt-away and the numerous other products similar on the market are extremely popular here. If that thermostat looks that way you can bet your entire cooling system on the engine will be much the same, possibly the same on your main engine if you don't regularly flush out the cooling system. I would also be checking a data sheet to see exactly how many anodes are on the engines and checking everyone of them. 

There are even permanent mounted flush systems for Diesel engines such as the ones found here (specially for @JonC  https://www.salt-attack.com.au/products/marine-boat-motors?keyword_k=&gclid=CjwKCAjwrdmhBhBBEiwA4Hx5gxJH-PpWNekdJ5pk0u1sQZp6yKzx_x_yCr8T78IcHPOIcLtDz_5P1hoCTxsQAvD_BwE

If you can't get your hands on such products you could try cleaning vinegar, which is slightly more acidic than normal vinegar. Vinegar will quickly break down the salt but if your anodes have dissolved the motor could be in a bit of trouble. 

 

And here's a picture specially for @JonC of some glowing fungus I took locally.

The waterways must be bad all through as even the new impeller that had been fitted couldn’t pump through the build up under the plate where the water enters. I had to dig it out. When I bought it 2 years ago it was in a wheelie bin of fresh water and was working just fine so it must have been on the limit then. 
I’m going to try the salt away and hope that it’ll work in a wheelie bin about 2/3 full.

As for the main engine, with regular trips and maintenance firing up there is no problem with that one. There is a slight build up in that one but it’s not bad.

 I’m not going for the vinegar option as it sounds harsh but it may yet come to that, we’ll see @GPSguru 😬

thanks all for your advice, I’ll keep you posted 👍

[JDP]

48 minutes ago, thejollysinker said:

The waterways must be bad all through as even the new impeller that had been fitted couldn’t pump through the build up under the plate where the water enters. I had to dig it out. When I bought it 2 years ago it was in a wheelie bin of fresh water and was working just fine so it must have been on the limit then. 
I’m going to try the salt away and hope that it’ll work in a wheelie bin about 2/3 full.

As for the main engine, with regular trips and maintenance firing up there is no problem with that one. There is a slight build up in that one but it’s not bad.

 I’m not going for the vinegar option as it sounds harsh but it may yet come to that, we’ll see @GPSguru 😬

thanks all for your advice, I’ll keep you posted 👍

I believe you can neutralise the vinegar with baking soda after using it, not something Ive even done as I use the salt-away. 

There are a couple of interesting videos from this local dealer up the road from me that could possibly help with a flushing setup. Common theme here being basic maintenance, flushing.

https://www.facebook.com/baypowerandsail/videos/465325701451034

 

Also this one shows how badly this low engine hour engine is from lack of flushing. 
https://www.facebook.com/baypowerandsail/videos/1385946574920577

 

And a little sea horse holding to the shark net at a little bay inside our local harbour, specially for @JonC

Edited April 13, 2023 by JDP

[Andy135]

6 minutes ago, JDP said:

And a little sea horse holding to the shark net at a little bay inside our local harbour, specially for @JonC

 

You're too good to him. He'll have that photo printed, framed and on his bedroom wall before you know it.

[thejollysinker]

just under one litre of salt away concentrate is approx £33.50 ish and for normal cleaning applications a mix of 20:1 is recommended. I don't think my application is normal and would require the stronger mix recommended of 10:1.... so that's 11 litres of fluid which I don't think is anywhere near enough to flush an outboard with effectiveness.

I've sussed out that Sulfamic acid is the active ingredient which I can buy (5kg of neat crystals) for £35.50 inc postage. I think I'll buy that and mix up my own cocktail in the bin and give it a whirl.... I can see it now, drops the leg in and it instantly dissolves 🤣

In for a penny and all that....

Edited April 13, 2023 by thejollysinker

[Odyssey]

When the wheelie bin melts you know it’s the right strength 🤣🤣

[Andy135]

Gary, good luck! 🤞🤞

 

[Waits for pics of half dissolved props with bated breath... 😬]

[thejollysinker]

15 minutes ago, Andy135 said:

Gary, good luck! 🤞🤞

 

[Waits for pics of half dissolved props with bated breath... 😬]

Thank you Andy, it’ll be interesting to see what happens 😅

[JDP]

5 hours ago, thejollysinker said:

just under one litre of salt away concentrate is approx £33.50 ish and for normal cleaning applications a mix of 20:1 is recommended. I don't think my application is normal and would require the stronger mix recommended of 10:1.... so that's 11 litres of fluid which I don't think is anywhere near enough to flush an outboard with effectiveness.

I've sussed out that Sulfamic acid is the active ingredient which I can buy (5kg of neat crystals) for £35.50 inc postage. I think I'll buy that and mix up my own cocktail in the bin and give it a whirl.... I can see it now, drops the leg in and it instantly dissolves 🤣

In for a penny and all that....

Are you sure you are getting those ratio's right ? that sounds like a crazy amount of solution. The 3.79lt container lasts me over a year. The 3.79lt is expensive at around 40 UK pounds but replacing engines is far more expensive and besides that if you regularly use the engine I would only use Salt-Away once a week or so, as the salt doesn't get chance to dry inside the engine when used more often. You will find commercial engines used daily suffer very little from corrosion issues.

 

Heres another tub setup for flushing.
https://www.facebook.com/baypowerandsail/videos/571397994546325

Edited April 13, 2023 by JDP

[thejollysinker]

21 hours ago, JDP said:

Are you sure you are getting those ratio's right ? that sounds like a crazy amount of solution. The 3.79lt container lasts me over a year. The 3.79lt is expensive at around 40 UK pounds but replacing engines is far more expensive and besides that if you regularly use the engine I would only use Salt-Away once a week or so, as the salt doesn't get chance to dry inside the engine when used more often. You will find commercial engines used daily suffer very little from corrosion issues.

 

Heres another tub setup for flushing.
https://www.facebook.com/baypowerandsail/videos/571397994546325

There you go. That’s the description from F10 marine web shop…. this is one of the reasons I posted the the questions as there is a minefield of misinformation out there….

if you ask me a ratio of 512:1 isn’t going to even scratch the surface, surely? what you’ve quoted there is for external cleaning with pressure from a hose, not descaling the inside of an engine.

the description on the 3.79l container says it removes salt accumulation with repeated use. I need to clean the engine properly, once so that I know if I need to use it it won’t be blocked. I can look after it properly once it’s been descaled.

I’m going to do some experiments with the sulfamic acid crystals before I start shoving it in my engine and come to my own conclusions about how this can be done. If I fuck it up it’s my own fault 🤷‍♂️

I will have a look at the other link you sent, thanks.

[JDP]

3 hours ago, thejollysinker said:

There you go. That’s the description from F10 marine web shop…. this is one of the reasons I posted the the questions as there is a minefield of misinformation out there….

if you ask me a ratio of 512:1 isn’t going to even scratch the surface, surely? what you’ve quoted there is for external cleaning with pressure from a hose, not descaling the inside of an engine.

the description on the 3.79l container says it removes salt accumulation with repeated use. I need to clean the engine properly, once so that I know if I need to use it it won’t be blocked. I can look after it properly once it’s been descaled.

I’m going to do some experiments with the sulfamic acid crystals before I start shoving it in my engine and come to my own conclusions about how this can be done. If I fuck it up it’s my own fault 🤷‍♂️

I will have a look at the other link you sent, thanks.

I posted some other links where pumps have been used to use the same solution in a continuous recycling process through the engine. Obviously doing it that way like in the video's you can use a more concentrated amount but really not needing that much as its being pumped back through constantly using a simple bilge pump hooked up to a 12v battery. Those guys have left badly blocked engines pumping the solution for several hours. Salt-Away is probably the most expensive one of these on the market here but they were one of the first so have been able to hold that top price from the reputation they have earned over the past 20+ yrs. 

I do also have another 4lt container of another brand which seems ok but will go back to the original as the blue die in the copy can stain things blue. 

Edited April 15, 2023 by JDP

[Saintly Fish]

Have a look at these heating system cleaners, there maybe a product there that's suitable and cheaper?? 
 

https://www.kamco.co.uk/kamco-power-flushing-chemicals.html