mick Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 3 hours ago, Saintly Fish said: According to that article the only way is to use kerb side petrol stations. No mention of marinas converting their pump for E5. Why would they bother if 95% of boats can take E10! I think if you read the RYA statement it says 95% road vehicles. Why do you need to change the pump at marinas ,surely you just clean tanks and fill with super unleaded. suzook12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 32 minutes ago, mick said: I think if you read the RYA statement it says 95% road vehicles. Why do you need to change the pump at marinas ,surely you just clean tanks and fill with super unleaded. Yes Mick you’re (for @Geoff) quite right it, it does say that. My apologies. I guess that’s what I get for scan reading and not digesting. Even still, it’s going to cause a lot of bother for a lot of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDP Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 Yes newer vehicles and boats are ok to run on it but it also needs to be used quickly and not left in tanks attracting water https://www.ipswichcitymechanical.com.au/e10-fuel-may-not-good-vehicle/ I dont know anyone who would risk having it in their boat fuel tanks. Andy135 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordmac Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Would a fuel stabiliser sort the storage issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Why play around with fuel if their getting us all into electric vehicles anyway? don`t think they will be able to generate enough electricity to charge them all. they still haven`t got any electric cars that can tow caravans or trailers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, mick said: Why play around with fuel if their getting us all into electric vehicles anyway? don`t think they will be able to generate enough electricity to charge them all. they still haven`t got any electric cars that can tow caravans or trailers. Petrol/oil fueled vehicles are going to be with us for a long time yet. Electric cars in their current form will never be much use other than for local/shorter journeys due to the fact that it is not possible to recharge batteries in a reasonably short time. Just imagine the chaos it would cause at a motorway petrol station even today if it took 15 minutes to fill your tank at busy times. Fuel cells may prove to be the answer long term, or better yet Nuclear!!!. How will people that live in cities, terraced houses with no drives, tower blocks or flats ever manage to get their cars charged. How on earth will commercial vehicles, aircraft, shipping cope? I do not think that enough thought has been given to this at world leader levels. The fuel oil giants are extremely important to the world economy. It does seem to me that we in the west have jumped the gun a bit with some of our agreed undertakings, and in any case any earth saving reductions that we make will be countered by increases from China, India, Africa etc. I am actually, quite "PRO" electric vehicles (I have had 2 Toyota Prius hybrid cars), but I think that the modern petrol and diesel cars are now fairly emissions/fuel efficient - if to complex with their electrnics. Anyway. in essence please do not run out and sell your diesel/petrol fuelled cars and boats. Lucky for you lot I am now being summoned to the table to eat my electrically cooked dinner. Geoff.☺️ Edited March 28, 2021 by Geoff grammar suzook12 and mick 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch_Egg2012 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 3 hours ago, Geoff said: Petrol/oil fueled vehicles are going to be with us for a long time yet. Electric cars in their current form will never be much use other than for local/shorter journeys due to the fact that it is not possible to recharge batteries in a reasonably short time. Just imagine the chaos it would cause at a motorway petrol station even today if it took 15 minutes to fill your tank at busy times. Fuel cells may prove to be the answer long term, or better yet Nuclear!!!. How will people that live in cities, terraced houses with no drives, tower blocks or flats ever manage to get their cars charged. How on earth will commercial vehicles, aircraft, shipping cope? I do not think that enough thought has been given to this at world leader levels. The fuel oil giants are extremely important to the world economy. It does seem to me that we in the west have jumped the gun a bit with some of our agreed undertakings, and in any case any earth saving reductions that we make will be countered by increases from China, India, Africa etc. I am actually, quite "PRO" electric vehicles (I have had 2 Toyota Prius hybrid cars), but I think that the modern petrol and diesel cars are now fairly emissions/fuel efficient - if to complex with their electrnics. Any. in essence please do not run out and sell your diesel/petrol uielled cars and boats. Lucky for you lot I am now being summoned to the table to eat my electically cooked dinner. Geoff.☺️ Commercial vehicles manufacturers are currently offering 2 option for urban operation, we launched a fully electric and a hybrid last year, they have been carrying out field test operations on our roads for the last 2 yrs. They'll be placed quite well as fleet depots have been gearing up with mass charging points. Long haul operation is the problem child that's going to take a bit more development but from rumours I hear we could be looking later this year for a hybrid tractor unit. The big issue with electric comes in the form of training for technicians some very serious voltage involved in our traction system requiring 2 people when working on the HV side, currently it requires a complete retraining of our workshop staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Yes, I agree with your comment, but I stated that electrically powered cars (meaning vehicles) are suitable for local/shorter journeys. Hybrid buses have been running for several years now, but it is the longer journeys (motorways etc.) I was referring to. I still see the problem being infrastructure to cope with the battery charging times, the current requirement , and adequate charging facilities. Of course added to all of these additional electricity supply problems is the intention to see the domestic (and commercial) use of gas/oil products virtually eliminated. We live on a planet of finite resources, but huge population increases. I live in Lincolnshire where we have some of the most productive growing soil/conditions, yet instead of producing food we see farmers encouraged (financially) to cover acres of fields with solar panels. I am sure that you are correct about the need for training technicians and the need for additional staff for safe HV working etc., but those additional costs will certainly not help productivity. I can see that China and others will benefit from our good intentions. Believe it or not, I am NOT against any efforts to help the environment, but question the way that we are trying to run before we can walk with our intentions to make some of the changes. Geoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzook12 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 The storage problems for E10 fuels is the amount of water it absorbs which in turn can create suphuric acide, neither of which are really wanted in the fuel system. Stainless fuel tanks could be even worse for being a contact catalystfrom my understanding, don't quote me on this though as I'm definitely not a petro chemist. Ethanol can be removed completely though this is a timely process and not easily carried out in the quantity you petrol heads use.... Fuel stabilisers can be added, but you will have to do your own research into how effective they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch_Egg2012 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Geoff said: Yes, I agree with your comment, but I stated that electrically powered cars (meaning vehicles) are suitable for local/shorter journeys. Hybrid buses have been running for several years now, but it is the longer journeys (motorways etc.) I was referring to. I still see the problem being infrastructure to cope with the battery charging times, the current requirement , and adequate charging facilities. Of course added to all of these additional electricity supply problems is the intention to see the domestic (and commercial) use of gas/oil products virtually eliminated. We live on a planet of finite resources, but huge population increases. I live in Lincolnshire where we have some of the most productive growing soil/conditions, yet instead of producing food we see farmers encouraged (financially) to cover acres of fields with solar panels. I am sure that you are correct about the need for training technicians and the need for additional staff for safe HV working etc., but those additional costs will certainly not help productivity. I can see that China and others will benefit from our good intentions. Believe it or not, I am NOT against any efforts to help the environment, but question the way that we are trying to run before we can walk with our intentions to make some of the changes. Geoff. I know our electric tractor unit is going to have a 45 min fast charge option so driver can charge on their break. I'm no full electric lover. I don't see it as the most practical option and it will be a pain in the workshop and as you said the power network is not there. I personally see Hydrogen fuel cells as the better option, as far as I know we as a manufacturer aren't looking at that route yet, although wouldn't mind betting our R&D department have been running them for a few years. Edited March 28, 2021 by Scotch_Egg2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Who do you work for @Scotch_Egg2012? I worked for Jaguar Land Rover for a number of years. I was lead engineer on the Ipace HV electronics (charger, inverter and DCDC converter) before that it was more research into Technology for EVs... Hydrogen is the way to go, a number arevlooking at fuel cells currently Scotch_Egg2012 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Fuel cells have been the obvious way to replace oil fuels, but we still have find a safe and economic way to produce and use them, rather than increasing the ethanol content. E10 - what comes next E20? E50? neat ethanol? Geoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzook12 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 13 minutes ago, Geoff said: Fuel cells have been the obvious way to replace oil fuels, but we still have find a safe and economic way to produce and use them, rather than increasing the ethanol content. E10 - what comes next E20? E50? neat ethanol? Geoff. E85 is quite common out in the world, some countries also have 100% ethanol. I've seen barrel loads of E85 at the drag strip, like methanol, runs considerably cooler iirc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch_Egg2012 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 11 hours ago, Odyssey said: Who do you work for @Scotch_Egg2012? I worked for Jaguar Land Rover for a number of years. I was lead engineer on the Ipace HV electronics (charger, inverter and DCDC converter) before that it was more research into Technology for EVs... Hydrogen is the way to go, a number arevlooking at fuel cells currently I work for Scania, first as a technician now as Workshop Manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordmac Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 E85, that's hand sanitizer! Porsche are developing synthetic petrol to keep their sports cars alive. Maybe that's the future for marine petrol? mick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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