JonC Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 3 minutes ago, Saintly Fish said: But there wouldn’t be a strut if I use that would there. Would it fit on the ledge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 (edited) Neil, revert to your plan A (staying moored on the pontoon). That would save a heap of money, remove the need to re route the aerial cable and stop the cushions getting smelly!!! If you want a bit of bling you could of course strut mount a radome enclosure. Geoff. Edited January 11, 2021 by Geoff omitted words JonC and captin slows old outlaw 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted January 11, 2021 Author Share Posted January 11, 2021 9 minutes ago, Geoff said: Neil, revert to your plan A (staying moored on the pontoon). That would a heap of money, remove the need to re route the aerial cable, stop the cushions getting smelly!!! If you want a bit of bling you could of course strut mount a radome enclosure. Geoff. Thanks Geoff for your sagely words of wisdom. Don’t you have something to get on with!! 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch_Egg2012 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Pretty sure most radar doesn't just look forward, mine gives a 360 view around me. I mounted my radar deflector above the radar Saintly Fish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Mine is located under my radar arch with radar above giving radar a clear view all around. I wouldn't place a largish object in my radars field of view (which is all round) above or below is the way to go imv Saintly Fish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 4 hours ago, Saintly Fish said: Thanks Geoff for your sagely words of wisdom. Don’t you have something to get on with!! 🙄 Don't worry Neil - I won't forget. Geoff. Saintly Fish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 3 hours ago, Scotch_Egg2012 said: Pretty sure most radar doesn't just look forward, mine gives a 360 view around me. I mounted my radar deflector above the radar Yep.... It does give an all round vision, it’s not just a case of looking for a blob on a screen on your heading bearing.... anything that is moving closer to the centre (you) is of worry.... Especially if you’re a WAFI doing 4knts and you got some hooligan in a fishing boat coming at you at 25knts..... 😁😁😁😁😁(Which is prob most of us at least once....) 🤣🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 28 minutes ago, Odyssey said: Yep.... It does give an all round vision, it’s not just a case of looking for a blob on a screen on your heading bearing.... anything that is moving closer to the centre (you) is of worry.... Especially if you’re a WAFI doing 4knts and you got some hooligan in a fishing boat coming at you at 25knts..... 😁😁😁😁😁(Which is prob most of us at least once....) 🤣🤣 You did a radar user coarse recently didn’t you? Is there any little too tips that everyone gets wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Odyssey Posted January 11, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2021 23 minutes ago, JonC said: You did a radar user coarse recently didn’t you? Is there any little too tips that everyone gets wrong? Tip No 1: Turn it on..... it’s there to be used not left to look pretty. You can gurantee that if you need to use it and it’s only been on once or twice it will be as much as use a chocolate tea pot Tip 2: train in good visibility. Worn out what boats look like in real life and on a radar screen. If you do this is good weather you’ll soon understand what real objects are when the fog comes down... Tip 3: Radar is giving all around range, not just straight in front of you. If you see a target on your screen, watch it. Does the target move closer to the centre? if so you are likely on a collision course. If it stays the same distance, you are fine. If it moves further away even better. Tip 4: if you do have a target that is not getting closer or further away from you then that means you are moving at the same speed relative to each other. However, they can change course or speed so be aware of this.... Tip 5: Read the manual. Yes it’s an exciting toy, it’s got lots of buttons and a nice coloured screen.... but read the manual and have a play, work out ranging, head up vs North up etc (Head up for collision avoidance, North up for plotting position) Tip 5: radar is highly accurate on range, however it’s not perfect on bearings. This is explained better on the RYA course.... Tip 6: best collision avoidance too is Mark 1 eyeball. Radar is a tool. Yes use it but don’t just stare at it and that alone as you flatten windsurfers, kayaks, sailing boats, Fishy (as he didn’t fit his reflectior) suzook12, Scotch_Egg2012, Andy135 and 2 others 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPSguru Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Odyssey said: however it’s not perfect on bearings. That will be due to the scatter effect of the RF signal, it would be made worse by any obstruction within the fresnel zone. As we all know the bearing is the angle between North and the target, and its accuracy depends upon how North is defined by the Radar unit. Most modern Radars will use GPS to define North or a gyro signal is used where azimuth stabilization is used. The accuracy of a well setup system can be as good as +/- 1% . It is 20 years or more since I played / worked with radar, so I guess even the pulse radars of today have come on a long way since then ......... Doppler direction finding is more my bag ......... Edited January 12, 2021 by GPSguru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 3 hours ago, GPSguru said: That will be due to the scatter effect of the RF signal, it would be made worse by any obstruction within the fresnel zone. As we all know the bearing is the angle between North and the target, and its accuracy depends upon how North is defined by the Radar unit. Most modern Radars will use GPS to define North or a gyro signal is used where azimuth stabilization is used. The accuracy of a well setup system can be as good as +/- 1% . It is 20 years or more since I played / worked with radar, so I guess even the pulse radars of today have come on a long way since then ......... Doppler direction finding is more my bag ......... Sounds about right 🙂 Just avoid using radar for your 3 point fix.... 😉 Instead fix your position by range to known objects/landmarks and depth to work out your position. I’d did ask in my training as to why I’d do that given that both radar and depth are fed into the same MFD that is my plotter.... the response was that GPS satellites may have stopped working..... so I won’t go into too much detail about navigating using radar as I’m not sure it’s needed..... 😉 JonC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPSguru Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 (edited) On 1/10/2021 at 6:58 PM, Saintly Fish said: Seeing as I have my radome on order, I’m also thinking about an eco max mini deflector. Question is, can I sight it right next to the radar either to the left or right of it? As king as it’s not forward of it, it should be ok ?? Remember that your radar looks 360 degrees around the boat, so your ehcomax should either go above the radome or below the radome. On the RIB mine is down low and just above the tubes, but works absolutely fine ............. the ehcomax is classed as one of the best on the leisure / small professional market and does provide a good solid taget, therefore mounting position is probably less important than with octahedral (rain catchers\) type products. Here you can see mine on the stern starboard side. Edited January 12, 2021 by GPSguru Saintly Fish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captin slows old outlaw Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 oh isinit fun i am so glad my boat is 2 small for radar. there fine till they go rong. umm i was thing has andy go 2 on his boats he has 2 ove every thing eals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzook12 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 As my understanding is that a radar works line of sight, @GPSguru can yours be seen thru the fibreglass consul with it mounted there? Or does that cause a slight blind spot? Or has this never been tested for? Saintly Fish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 26 minutes ago, suzook12 said: As my understanding is that a radar works line of sight, @GPSguru can yours be seen thru the fibreglass consul with it mounted there? Or does that cause a slight blind spot? Or has this never been tested for? If his reflector is obscured then it’s not a problem as whatever is obscuring it will show as a target. I think? GPSguru 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzook12 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 58 minutes ago, JonC said: If his reflector is obscured then it’s not a problem as whatever is obscuring it will show as a target. I think? But a different style of target? Sorry, I have no knowledge at all of radar other than real basic understanding. It was the saying that a GRP hull will show as scatter? That made me wonder if this would cause a blind spot at range where the reflector would normally be seen easily... I'm guessing that scatter is the signal being scattered in all directions so only a partial amount is reflected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, suzook12 said: But a different style of target? Sorry, I have no knowledge at all of radar other than real basic understanding. It was the saying that a GRP hull will show as scatter? That made me wonder if this would cause a blind spot at range where the reflector would normally be seen easily... I'm guessing that scatter is the signal being scattered in all directions so only a partial amount is reflected? Yeah will show as a weaker target but still there I think. Where’s Glen liver when you need him, he was the radar operator on the belgrano or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 GRP doesn’t give a good reflection as the waves go straight through it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 7 minutes ago, Odyssey said: GRP doesn’t give a good reflection as the waves go straight through it So when I get a return from a boat that is mainly grp is it from the grp or the metallic bits on the boat? I think I need to spend more time watching the screen so as to learn what’s what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPSguru Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 4 hours ago, suzook12 said: As my understanding is that a radar works line of sight, @GPSguru can yours be seen thru the fibreglass consul with it mounted there? Or does that cause a slight blind spot? Or has this never been tested for? No blind spot from the console, as an obstruction it is way too small. You need to imagine the radar is not singular, it is 3D ............ so a full 360 Degree signal would be the classical doughnut shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, GPSguru said: No blind spot from the console, as an obstruction it is way too small. You need to imagine the radar is not singular, it is 3D ............ so a full 360 Degree signal would be the classical doughnut shape. I like doughnuts GPSguru 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzook12 Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 hour ago, GPSguru said: No blind spot from the console, as an obstruction it is way too small. You need to imagine the radar is not singular, it is 3D ............ so a full 360 Degree signal would be the classical doughnut shape. So if you put your echomax behind a wall of GRP the other boats radar still see's it? I get radar transmits in a 360 degree shape but we're talking talking of seeing an object from an angle that it is out of view.... You said earlier GRP scatters the signal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPSguru Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, suzook12 said: You said earlier GRP scatters the signal Er no, if did then it was badly written ! 😀 GRP is almost 'see through' for microwave signals, that is why GRP boats need a radar reflector to act as a 'target'. On a rag and stick the metal work of the mast will give a tiny reflection, and they often enhance this by raising an octahedral reflector (rain catcher) up the mast in foggy weather. Steel boats will show as a massive and excellent target ............. Radar 'scatter' is a natural phenomenon that occurs to all radio signal over a body of water and it due to mainly water reflections, wave reflections, and temperature inversion', but 'scatter' can have a negative effect when determining accurate direction in relation to true North. Edited January 13, 2021 by GPSguru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzook12 Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 ok, now we understand each other, GRP has little or no reflection because radar signal goes through it, in much the same way your GPS still works in a cabin,,,,, GPSguru 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 6 hours ago, suzook12 said: ok, now we understand each other, GRP has little or no reflection because radar signal goes through it, in much the same way your GPS still works in a cabin,,,,, You got it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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